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Thread: Are Croats Slavic?

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    Post Are Croats Slavic?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blond Beast
    I suggest you be more of a Pan-European than a Pan-Slavist (Pan-Slavism is divisive), considering Poles and Russians have much more in common with Germans and Swedes than they do with Bosnians and Croats.
    Thats where you're wrong because Croats are genetically more close to Germans and Scandinawians:

    ...Norwegian Y chromosomes displaying EU 7 and EU18 are similar to those observed on the analogous Y chromosomes found in Central and Western Europe.7 The analysis of the pairwise distances calculated either taking into account the molecular distances among haplotypesor leaving them aside (Fst and Fst, respectively34) indicateda close affinity of Norwegians with Germans and otherCentral European populations (Czechs and Croatians)...
    The present German gene pool shows a high frequencyof Eu7 and Eu18 haplotypes. These haplotypes, whichaccount for about 75% of the Norwegian Y chromosomepool, are then likely to have been brought to Norway bythosegroupswhoalsobroughttheIndo-Europeanlanguages and the agriculture. However, at present, it isnot possible to evaluate how much this migration impactedthe Norwegian gene pool. First, because it is not possible todistinguish between lineages brought in the late glacialtime and those brought 5 – 6000 years ago. In addition,non-random mating phenomena may also play a role. Itis possible that these cultures were composed of a subsetof elite males,21who reduced the reproductive success ofother males and then the Y chromosome may emphasisethe real genetic contributions of the central Europeanmigration to Norway.
    http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publication...10_521-529.pdf

    Here you can also find more about genetic composition of the Croatians:

    http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publication...v290_p1155.pdf

    Mayority of the Croats (45%) has Eu7 (comune amongst Germanic lands), 29% East European Eu19 (commune amongst Slavs), 10% Western Celtic Eu18.

    The designation "Slavic" is more linguistic and cultural than racial.
    I agree, but onlly partially.
    Term "Slavic" is strictlly linguistic, there is no one Slavic culture and there is no one Slavic phenotype.
    Pre-Soviet and Soviet Russia had imperial ambitions toward other (Slavic and Non-Slavic) European countries. This imperialism was usually under slogans of Eurasianism, Pan-Slavism, Slavophilia and Solidarism (With Russian puppet states in Europe).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zvaci
    Thats where you're wrong because Croats are genetically more close to Germans and Scandinawians.
    That's based on analysis of a few Y-chromosome genetic markers only. Physical anthropology and autosomal DNA analysis shows Croats to be closely related to surrounding populations with a high (up to 75%) proportion of Neolithic ancestry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russian Patriot
    That's based on analysis of a few Y-chromosome genetic markers only. Physical anthropology and autosomal DNA analysis shows Croats to be closely related to surrounding populations with a high (up to 75%) proportion of Neolithic ancestry.
    Only Haplotypes Eu2, Eu5, and Eu22 were not observed. Also its fair to note this study with halotypes is more accurate than earlier studies with Halogrupes (HG) and that the Croatian samples had (together with Polish and Ukrainian) the most numerous sum of studied samples.

    Concerning Neolithic halotypes Croatian results are:
    Eu4 = 6,9 %
    Eu9 = 5,2 %
    Eu11 = 1,7 %
    Eu10 = 0 %

    All together this is 13,79 %.

    Comparing us with Slavic Macedonians the difference is obvious: The most numerous Macedonian type is Slavic (Eu19= 35 %) with a lot more Neolithic types than Croats:

    Macedonians:
    Eu4 = 15 %
    Eu9 = 15 %
    Eu11= 0 %
    Eu10= 5%

    All together - 35 %

    This picture fits well into phisical anthropology picture because Mediterraneans (Neolithic immigrants) are rarity here. Even the coast part is of Mesolithic, Littoral or Atlanto-Mediterranean race, not Mediterranean and definitely not Slavic. Studies confirmed that Dinaric range was the last destination of larger Slavic migrations. So the population of this area to the Adriatic see is much the same as it was during Theodoric the Great - its still the blood soil of Goths, Kelts and Illyrians.

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    What about the Avars?

    The evidence of mtDNA haplogroup F in a European
    population and its ethnohistoric implications

    Mitochondrial DNA polymorphism was analysed in a sample of 108 Croatians from the Adriatic Island isolate
    of Hvar. Besides typically European varieties of human maternal lineages, haplogroup F was found in a
    considerable frequency (8.3%). This haplogroup is most frequent in southeast Asia but has not been reported
    before in Europe. The genealogical analysis of haplogroup F cases from Hvar suggested founder effect.
    Subsequent field work was undertaken to sample and analyse 336 persons from three neighbouring islands
    (Brac, Korcula and Krk) and 379 more persons from all Croatian mainland counties and to determine if
    haplogroup F is present in the general population. Only one more case was found in one of the mainland
    cities, with no known ancestors from Hvar Island. The first published phylogenetic analysis of haplogroup F
    worldwide is presented, applying the median network method, suggesting several scenarios how this
    maternal lineage may have been added to the Croatian mtDNA pool. European Journal of Human Genetics (2001)



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    Quote Originally Posted by providenje
    What about the Avars?

    The evidence of mtDNA haplogroup F in a European
    population and its ethnohistoric implications

    Mitochondrial DNA polymorphism was analysed in a sample of 108 Croatians from the Adriatic Island isolate
    of Hvar. Besides typically European varieties of human maternal lineages, haplogroup F was found in a
    considerable frequency (8.3%). This haplogroup is most frequent in southeast Asia but has not been reported
    before in Europe. The genealogical analysis of haplogroup F cases from Hvar suggested founder effect.
    Subsequent field work was undertaken to sample and analyse 336 persons from three neighbouring islands
    (Brac, Korcula and Krk) and 379 more persons from all Croatian mainland counties and to determine if
    haplogroup F is present in the general population. Only one more case was found in one of the mainland
    cities, with no known ancestors from Hvar Island. The first published phylogenetic analysis of haplogroup F
    worldwide is presented, applying the median network method, suggesting several scenarios how this
    maternal lineage may have been added to the Croatian mtDNA pool. European Journal of Human Genetics (2001)
    Yes, I am aware of Avar traces on Hvar Island, but its insignificant in respect to percentage of the entire population. Avar halotype (Eu 16 = only 1.7 %).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zvaci
    Yes, I am aware of Avar traces on Hvar Island, but its insignificant in respect to percantage of the entire population. Avar hallotype (Eu 16 = onlly 1.7 %)
    So, the inhabitants of Hvar are not Croats?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    So, the inhabitants of Hvar are not Croats?
    Obviously they are the offsprings of Asiatic Avars which survived in the isolation of this small Island. We can find this halotype also amongst Czechs and Slovaks (2,2%)

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    Yes, but do you consider them Croats, even when they have major Asiatic Avar DNA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    Yes, but do you consider them Croats, even when they have major Asiatic Avar DNA?
    Yes, they are culturally Croats, and I consider them to be honorary Aryans. Their DNA is the matter of eugenic and racial hygiene. Under assumption we have true folkish government I would stimulate this people to adopt Aryan kids and restrain them selves from reproduction.

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    But, if the inhabitants of Hvar belong culturally and linguistically to Croats, then, who do Croats belong to?

    What group? Do the Croats speak a Slavic language, or do all other Slavs speak a Croatian-derived language.

    Do the Croats belong to Germanic nations culturally, or Slavs. Do the Croats have anything autochtonous, or are Croats an offshoot project people who belong to different groups in all spheres of their existence.

    Iranian in origin, Gothic/Keltic in DNA, Slavic in language, Germanic/W.European by culture, Balkanic by Geography etc. Isn't it more convenient to call Croats Slavs?

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