View Poll Results: Should army be seen as a job or a patriotic duty?

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  • Always a Job

    0 0%
  • Always a Duty.

    14 48.28%
  • Both, it depends on the situation.

    12 41.38%
  • Neither/Other (please elaborate)

    3 10.34%
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Thread: Serving in the Army: A Job or a Duty?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Defamation by association...Clever. Typical redneck logic.
    Well name calling really gets you no where, it only proves that you cannot debate the point. Besides that I would rather be called a Redneck than a tool from the left as in truth the term is actually is of respect for someone who works hard and is independent if you care to look up where the word comes from, it was only until new speech did it become a slightly supposed bad word.

    Well, they already had Cuba for that, so what did the US military really achieve? All in all, I think the aggressive military actions of your country has inspired more threats and enemies towards its people than it has secured the people's safety.
    I guess you did not look at a map like I asked you to earlier when I explained things to you about Central America, but yet you know everything since you have read so much in the media or the history they put out. Like I said the soviets were backing communist revolutions in our back yard against our allies. I was there for a extended period of time, I seen these things with my own eyes. I also seen USSR weapons stockpiles we destroyed with my eyes. I also seen invading forces from other countries with my eyes. All of this and you somehow know more than I do about what was going on in Central America more during the 1980's, wow[sarcasm alert] I wish I would have just been born twenty years later and been told what happened by a leftist propaganda machine[sarcasm over]. I guess then I would have all the answers.

    I am very proud to have served and would do so again, even if that means protecting the rights of people who have no clue. Even though they are clueless they still should have those rights to speak for themselves even if they are not speaking for themselves.

    What are you on about?
    On the island of Granada there were US citizens being held by Cuban forces, that is the reason we liberated these citizens it the first place, we could care less about the island itself.

    First off I could care less what other nations think about our military actions or our country, they all seem to come begging for help when they are in trouble. Secondly ever think that it is leftist propaganda that feeds the unpopularity you see so much of. Then there is the subject of food the US produces more of it than any other country, maybe we should not be so generous in terms of trade.

    I understand you are young and most likely being spoon fed daily doses of media and the " oh war and the military is so evil " idea , however did you ever think there will always be wars and there will always be soldiers needed to fight these wars. Yes, I will admit the US is a very war like nation, but we do far more peaceful things than we do war like things you just don't hear about the good things as much.


    Free speech has never been a cause of the military, but that of the citizenry.
    Free speak and free thought and the protection have always been the cause of the soldier first and foremost in the US, in fact we swear a oath to protect it.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

  2. #72
    Senior Member Schneider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    I have nothing but disdain for people killing merely for the money, or by some absurd conviction that mindlessly following their overlord's orders in itself is somehow a virtue. I don't understand how that makes anyone more of a 'man'. If anything, it makes you a weakling.
    I have never met any one in the army who even had the opportunity to kill for money. The rules of engagement are strict in the US military. It is made very clear to soldiers that they will face criminal charges if they do not follow the ROE.

    At times our ROE stated we were not to fire even if we were being fired upon, unless we could prove they were shooting at us and not at someone else, or maybe they mistook us for someone else.

    Our company went 5 months and lost 4 soldiers before we even had the opportunity to kill the enemy. This was perhaps the most difficult part of the mission(aside from sleeping while being shelled). Many times we stood there and talked with or even ate with the people who were killing US soldiers. We simply weren't allowed to do anything about it.

    No, we were not blindly following orders. The orders made sense, and the enemy knew our ROE. A weak person would not have been able to resist firing at a triggerman in a crowd, knowing that they would be his target again in the next few weeks. A weak man would find a way to avoid going out on another mission.

    Luckily for me, the men in my company instinctively moved toward the sound of the guns.

    Not a trait I associate with the weak or those with money on their mind.
    "Do not confuse "duty" with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe to yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anything from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect."

  3. #73
    Senior Member Fiona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneider View Post

    Our company went 5 months and lost 4 soldiers before we even had the opportunity to kill the enemy. This was perhaps the most difficult part of the mission(aside from sleeping while being shelled). Many times we stood there and talked with or even ate with the people who were killing US soldiers. We simply weren't allowed to do anything about it.
    I couldn't stand that.
    'you're all just visiting' -the good shepherd

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    Well name calling really gets you no where, it only proves that you cannot debate the point.
    Then get to the bloody point yourself and stop speculating about the origins of my thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    All of this and you somehow know more than I do about what was going on in Central America more during the 1980's
    I never said I know more about the factual occurances and the history at large than you do. I'm saying that I have a different view of the mechanics of the military and the people serving in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    I understand you are young and most likely being spoon fed daily doses of media and the " oh war and the military is so evil " idea , however did you ever think there will always be wars and there will always be soldiers needed to fight these wars.
    Uhm, yes, quite obviously.
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneider View Post
    I have never met any one in the army who even had the opportunity to kill for money. The rules of engagement are strict in the US military. It is made very clear to soldiers that they will face criminal charges if they do not follow the ROE.
    Well, if one joins the army to earn a living (instead of joining by conviction of the cause itself) and engage in military operations (and killing in the process), one has by definition 'killed for money'. Such people are to be regarded as simple mercenaries, in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneider View Post
    No, we were not blindly following orders. The orders made sense, and the enemy knew our ROE. A weak person would not have been able to resist firing at a triggerman in a crowd, knowing that they would be his target again in the next few weeks. A weak man would find a way to avoid going out on another mission.

    Luckily for me, the men in my company instinctively moved toward the sound of the guns.

    Not a trait I associate with the weak or those with money on their mind.
    That certainly is highly respectable, and those people are certainly not the kind of people I was referreing to as 'weak', if your characteristics of them are correct.

    I do seriously doubt, however, that most soldiers, with his means of living and future career prospects on the line, would refuse to follow orders in the heat of battle, even if they went against his core values and principles.
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

  6. #76
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    I heard word that since the Bundeswehr ended conscription, they have been discussing the idea of allowing foreigners into the military. Is that true? And if so, what time will it be implemented, I'd be very interested in signing up for that right after college, become an officer, if it works the same way as I imagine.
    Ein Kampf, Ein Sieg! Fur Prussia!

  7. #77
    Senior Member Schneider's Avatar
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    1. A mercenary is any person who:

    (a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
    (b) Is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar rank and functions in the armed forces of that party;
    (c) Is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict;
    (d) Is not a member of the armed forces of a party to the conflict; and
    (e) Has not been sent by a State which is not a party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.
    2. A mercenary is also any person who, in any other situation:
    (a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad for the purpose of participating in a concerted act of violence aimed at:
    (i) Overthrowing a Government or otherwise undermining the constitutional order of a State; or
    (ii) Undermining the territorial integrity of a State;
    (b) Is motivated to take part therein essentially by the desire for significant private gain and is prompted by the promise or payment of material compensation;
    (c) Is neither a national nor a resident of the State against which such an act is directed;
    (d) Has not been sent by a State on official duty; and
    (e) Is not a member of the armed forces of the State on whose territory the act is undertaken.
    — UN Mercenary Convention[1
    "Do not confuse "duty" with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe to yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anything from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect."

  8. #78
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    American foreign policy is more about defending Israel and corporate interests than it is about defending America.

    No way I'm taking a bullet for that. This isn't about patriotism. It's about which master you really serve. I'm not being the goy that defecates in his own fox hole while Abraham BergManStein stays home and gets rich off his investments.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Then get to the bloody point yourself and stop speculating about the origins of my thoughts.
    The point is you do not know what you are talking about and you cannot carry on debate based on facts.

    I never said I know more about the factual occurances and the history at large than you do. I'm saying that I have a different view of the mechanics of the military and the people serving in it.
    Then why do you continue to post things you know very little about. You can't have a view of the mechanics of people who serve in the military because you have never served, the only logic you have is second hand at best. Therefor when you say people in the military are weak you are just spouting nonsense based on ideas that you have been conditioned to think. I wonder who the weak one really is?

    I really think you put your foot in mouth so to speak when you called people in the military weak. You have no basis of facts for your statements, only leftist instilled rhetoric. In essence you insulted people who serve just so you could sound intellectual or whatever, but just as most elitist intellectuals your thinking is not based on experience or facts.



    Uhm, yes, quite obviously.
    They why do you call the military or people in the military weak for protecting you, yes they do protect you just by being there even if they never have to fight.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Austin's Avatar
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    This line that you have to support the military in non-critical, foreign-based wars is simply illogical at best.

    They are not protecting anyone save for the military industrial complexes orders and shipments and revenue streams. The soldiers are doing a job. They are mere contractors for hire to a consumerist-global-hive. For this I respect them, just as I respect the janitor or the mailman for doing their job nobly so.

    Yet I do not see the soldiers defending against some all-powerful foe in some foreign land. They are merely serving the consumerist overlord-hive to which I am member of, that is all. The hive is not in danger and has not been for some time. 9/11 was a random attack, it posed no critical danger to the overall hive and never did. I care not about the wars. They are what they are. I am not against or for them. They have their purposes in many ways seen and unseen and I care not either way. Nor does the average soldier. They do it for the paycheck.

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