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Thread: The Pontic Race

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    Member Dienekes_Pontikos's Avatar
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    Post The Pontic Race

    Carleton S. Coon, The Races of Europe, 1939, p. 617

    "In studying the racial composition of southern Russia, there was evidence of a moderately tall, long-headed, brunet Mediterranean form, which is concentrated along the northern shore of the Black Sea, but which also appears sporadically in the entire Russian population. To Western Europeans and Americans it is better known than its frequency would warrant, for it is exemplified by several world famous ballerinas and opera singers. This is the Mediterranean racial division which the Russian anthropologists call Pontic (139) and which the Poles recognize as a very minor element in their own population. It is with little doubt of Neolithic date in southern Russia, Rumania, Bulgaria, and the Hellespont region, and probably in Greece and the Aegean. In most of Thrace it seems more basic than the Danubian, or at least more common."

    (139) Bunak, V., ZFMA, vol. 30, 1932, pp. 441-503

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    Member Dienekes_Pontikos's Avatar
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    Renato Biasutti, Le razze ei popoli della terra, UTET, Turin, 1954, vol. 2, p. 207

    "Tre grandi tipi e precisamente il Grande Russo centrale, quello della Polesia e quello di Rjasan sono fatti derivare dal B u n a k da una razza pigmentata "pontica settentrionale", che egli considera quale ramo nord-orientale della stirpe Mediterranea."

    Translation:

    "Tree major types, and precisely the central Great Russian, that of Polesia and that of Ryazan are derived by B u n a k from a pigmented "Northern Pontic" race, which he considers as the northeastern branch of the Mediterranean race."
    Last edited by Dienekes_Pontikos; Friday, October 31st, 2003 at 11:29 AM.

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    Member Pomor's Avatar
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    Even if Pontids do have relationship with Meds proper they look nothing like Meds from Italy or Greece. They are light-eyed, fair-skinned therefore Northern looking people. Like these fellows here:



    This one has some UP influence, but still predominantly Pontid.










    'Mediterranean Russian' is just plain nonsense.
    Last edited by Pomor; Friday, October 31st, 2003 at 03:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes_Pontikos

    Translation:

    "Tree major types, and precisely the central Great Russian, that of Polesia and that of Ryazan are derived by B u n a k from a pigmented "Northern Pontic" race, which he considers as the northeastern branch of the Mediterranean race."
    "Pigmented" is a rather arbitrary term, and appropriate only in a realtive sense in this situation (i.e. Northern Pontics are pigmented compared to Russian Baltics) Russian groups belonging to the Northern "Pontic" race have rates of pure eye blondism ranging from 37.5 to 50%, and rates of hair blondism ranging from 20 to 30%. Black hair is not found. Eye pigmentation is inversely correlated with cephalic index, just as it is among Nordics. Finally, these Russians have the highest rates of R1a and other Indo-European gene markers in the world. Even though they resemble Southern Pontics anthropometrically, this is where the resemblance ends. They are closer to Nordics in terms of pigmentation, and genetically tied to the Kurgan population.
    Last edited by Prodigal Son; Friday, October 31st, 2003 at 07:44 PM.

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    Post Pigmentation of Coon's Pontic Mediterraneans

    http://legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Papers/p26.htm

    Black hair, dark brown eyes



    Dark brown hair, green brown eyes



    Dark brown hair and eyes



    Black hair and green brown eyes


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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    I've never seen a Russian that looks like any of those guys. Maybe all the ones that came to Canada were a different type.

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    Dienekes, you do know that there is a large difference between Northern (Russian) Pontics and Southern Pontics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocreator
    I've never seen a Russian that looks like any of those guys. Maybe all the ones that came to Canada were a different type.
    Russian "Pontics" belong to the strongly depigmented Northern Pontic race, which Coon describes as Nordic (none of the guys in the plates are Russian, btw) which may help explain why you've never seen a Russian who looks like that.

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    Blondism of Northern Pontic groups:

    Steppe Russians (described by Coon as Nordic, by Bunak as part of the "Northern Pontic race")

    % pure light eyes - 37.5

    % blond hairs - 20

    Don-Sursk Russians:

    % pure light eyes - 50

    % blond hairs - 29

    Central Russians (brachycephalized)

    % pure light eyes - 47

    % blond hairs - 25

    If a group with 37.5% light eyes and 20% blond hairs is described as Nordic, how would a group with 50% pure light eyes and 29% light hairs be described?

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    Russian anthropologists tie "Northern Pontic" groups to the ancient Kurgan population:

    [There is] a mesocephalic type, with a cephalic index of 79-80, inhabiting 16 regions within the area of the former Ryazan, Tambov and Penza departments. This zone is located between tributaries of the Oka river, tributaries of the Tsna and Moksha rivers, as well as the upper tributaries of the Don. Nowhere else in the area inhabited by ethnic Russians is such a high concentration of mesocephalic indices found. This type is also found among Erzya Mordvins... ... The Tambov-Penza type is more ancient [than the Valdaic type] and has to a great measure preserved the specialties of the ancient Kurgan population. ...

    Source: Origins and Ethnic History of the Russian People According to Anthropological Data, p. 9, par. 4 - p. 10, par. 2.

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