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Thread: Quaternion Eagle / The Quarter Eagle

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    Quaternion Eagle / The Quarter Eagle

    One rendition of the coat of the Holy Roman Empire was the "Quaternion Eagle" printed by David de Negker of Augsburg, after a 1510 woodcut by Hans Burgkmair. It showed a selection of 56 shields of various Imperial States in groups of four on the feathers of a double-headed eagle supporting, in place of a shield, Christ on the Cross. The top, larger shields, are those of the seven Prince Electors, the ecclesiastical: Trier, Cologne and Mainz as well as of the titular "Prefect of Rome" on the right wing; the secular: Bohemia, Electorate of the Palatinate, Saxony and Brandenburg on the left. The depiction also appeared on the Imperial Eagle beaker.
    Heinrich van Beeck



    Hans Burgkmair, 1510



    David de Negker, 1510



    On Wikipedia

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    Question Quaternionenadler

    I know it's quite a lot to ask, but can any Kameraden hier please list the names of the shields on this wonderful Eagle posted by Aeternitas? They're not very easy to read - I can manage some, but not all, but half the problem here is that the names of the principalities and dukedoms and so on are not so familiar to an Englander as they would be to a German.

    First feather;
    Trier. Koeln. Regensburg?? C...? Salzburg??
    Second;
    Another Koeln?? Augsburg. Metz?? Ach?? Lubeck.
    3rd;
    L???? Westerburg? Th??? Alwalden??
    4;
    Mainz? Nuernberg. ?? R?? Stramberg??
    5;
    M? Brandenburg. ?? Baden.
    6;
    P......... Rom ??!? Braunschweig. Bayern. Schwaben. L?????
    7;
    B? B????? n.[ieder?] Sachsen. Westerreich?? Sch?
    8;
    Pfalz. D?? E? Hessen. Leuchtenberg??
    9;
    Cleves? Savoy?? Swarzburg? Zilli???
    10;
    Sachsen. A??????? Weissenbach? Fr??berg S??????/
    11;
    Bamberg. Ulm?? ??? S????//////
    12;
    Brandenburg [again?] L??? Rottenburg?? Aldenburg??

    Can I ask about the origin of the image too? Interesting to see the nonGerman parts of the HRE in there too!

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    Re: German Civic Heraldry

    Hi Oswiu ! Just have a look at this link:

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Qu..._de_Negker.jpg

    Then, click on the picture for a higher resolution !

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu
    Interesting to see the nonGerman parts of the HRE in there too!
    Got some dukedoms and Reichsstädte...

    6th feather: L????? ~~> Luthring ~~> Lothringen/Lorraine (part and parcel of France)

    8th feather: E? ~~> Edelsasz ~~> Elsass/Alsace (part and parcel of France)

    11th feather: ??? S??? ~~> Hagenau Sletstat~~> Hagenau
    Schlettstadt/Haguenau Selestat (french cities in Alsace)

    :ffrance

    12th feather: Lützelburg... I'd would say Lëtzebuerg/Luxemburg (arms may have changed, strange !)

    Regards.

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    Re: German Civic Heraldry

    Quote Originally Posted by Herjafadir
    Hi Oswiu ! Just have a look at this link:

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Qu..._de_Negker.jpg

    Then, click on the picture for a higher resolution !
    Good man, Herjafadir! Vielen Thanks!
    And My God, is that Bild BIG!
    6th feather: L????? ~~> Luthring ~~> Lothringen/Lorraine (part and parcel of France)


    8th feather: E? ~~> Edelsasz ~~> Elsass/Alsace (part and parcel of France)
    Edel = Noble, or our Old English AEthel. What is the sasz part?

    A very odd orthography there. [That last word almost looks Polish!] Is it a dialect I don't know, or just old spelling?

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    Re: German Civic Heraldry

    The Reichsstädte were the imperial cities. Some source in English on this:

    Imperial Cities

    The Imperial Cities (Reichsstädte) contained 51 cities, grouped in the Bench of the Rhine (14 cities) and the Bench of Swabia (37 cities). Their position in the Reichstag was not always clear; in particular, their ability to cast decisive votes, which was nevertheless confirmed in 1648. They had no say on certain matters: the admission of new States of the Empire, the investiture of imperial fiefs (as long as they were not affected), imperial wars (after 1803, when they gained the neutrality they had long requested). The presiding city was the one in which the Reichstag was held, which was always Regensburg after 1663.

    In 1803, 45 cities were mediatized, leaving 6 cities: Augsburg, Lübeck, Nürnberg, Frankfurt, Bremen, Hamburg. Augsburg and Nürnberg were absorbed by Bavaria in 1806. Frankfurt became a grand-duchy in 1810 but re-emerged with a minicipal government in 1813. Frankfurt was the seat of the Bund's assembly from 1816 to 1866; it was annexed by Prussia in that year. Lübeck was annexed to Schleswig-Holstein under the Nazis in 1937. At present, Bremen and Hamburg still exist as autonomous Länder in the Federal Republic of Germany, the last remnants of the Imperial cities.
    http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/hre.htm

    On Alsace:
    Old High German "Elisâzzo" = "Alsace" = "land on the other side of the Rhine".
    http://www.etymologie.info/~e/f_/fr-__alsa.html#Alsace

    Alsace - from Latin Alisatia, a latinised form of the Germanic name that also yields Old High German El-sasz, allegedly meaning "foreign settlement"
    http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...%20etymologies

    Alsace region between France and Germany (disputed by them 18c.-19c.), M.L. Alsatia, from O.H.G. *Ali-sazzo "inhabitant of the other (bank of the Rhine)," from P.Gmc. *alja "other" + O.H.G. -sazzo "inhabitant," lit. "one who sits." Alsatian was adopted 1917 by the Kennel Club for "German Shepherd dog" to avoid the associations of German; the breed has no connection with Alsace.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Alsace

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    Re: German Civic Heraldry

    *Ali-sazzo "inhabitant of the other (bank of the Rhine)," from P.Gmc. *alja "other" + O.H.G. -sazzo "inhabitant," lit. "one who sits."
    Vielen Dank fur that, Aeternitas!

    This *alja is very interesting. Are there any modern reflexes of this in a modern Germanic language?

    Irish has the cognate 'eile', and I suppose Latin alias is the same [alien?]. The Greek prefix allo- too.

    I can't think of a Slavonic cognate, but lyuboy comes to mind ['any'].

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    Re: [Split] Quaternionenadler

    Some detailed information about the Quaternionenadler:
    First of all, we have to distinguish between the feathers (in fact, we have 12 of them) and the uppermost row, which contains the 7 Electors of the Holy Roman Empire + the pope. On the heraldic right we can see 4 eccleciastical dignitaries, namely:

    Trier = the Archbishop of Trier
    Cöln = the Archbishop of Köln
    Mentz = the Archbishop of Mainz
    Potestat zu Rom = the realm of the pope in Rome
    On the heraldic left, we see the 4 secular Electors:
    Behem = the King of Bohemia
    Pfaltz = the Count Palatine
    Sachsen = the Duke of Saxony
    Brandenburg = the Margrave of Brandenburg
    These are the most important Estates of the Empire.

    The rest:

    First feather from the heraldic right: iiii Baurn = 4 peasants
    Cöln = Köln
    Regenspurg = Regensburg
    Costnitz = Konstanz
    Saltzburg = Salzburg

    Second: iiii Stett = 4 cities
    Augspurg = Augsburg
    Metz = Metz
    Ach = Aachen
    Lubeck = Lübeck

    Third: iiii Seper freien = 4 free peers
    Lintpurg = Schenken von Limpurg (not: Limburg!!!)
    Westerburg = count of Westerburg-Leiningen
    Thussis = ?
    Alwalden = ?

    Forth: iiii Burgrauen = 4 burgraves
    Nürnberg = burgraves of Nuremberg
    Maidburg = burgraves of Magdeburg
    Reinegk = burgraves of Rheineck
    Stramberg = burgraves of Stromberg

    Fifth: iiii Marggrauen = 4 margraves
    Merchern = margraves of Mähren
    Brandenburg = margraves of Brandenburg
    Meichssen = margraves of Meißen
    Baden = margraves of Baden

    Sixth: iiii Seill = 4 ?
    Braunschweig = duke of Braunschweig
    Bairn = duke of Bavaria
    Swaben = duke of Swabia
    Lutting = duke of Lothringen

    Seventh: iiii Vicari = 4 surrogates
    Brabandt = Brabant
    n. Sachssen = Niedersachsen
    Westerreich = Westrich
    Schlessi = Schlesien

    Eighth: iiii Lantgrauen = 4 landgraves
    Düring = Thüringen
    Edelsass = Elsaß
    Hessen = Hessen
    Leuchtenberg = Leuchtenberg

    Ninth: iiii Graven = 4 counts
    Cleue = Kleve
    Saphoy = Savoyen
    Schwartzburg = Schwarzburg
    Zilli = Cilli

    Tenth: iiii Ritter = 4 knights
    Anndelaw = Andlau
    Weissenbach = Weissenbach
    Frawnberg = Fraunberg
    Strundeck = Strundeck?

    Eleventh: iiii dörfer = 4 villages
    Bamberg = Bamberg
    Ulm = Ulm
    Hagenaw = Haguenau
    Slerstat = Schlettstadt

    Twelfth : iiii birg = 4 castles
    Magdaburg = Magdeburg
    Lützelburg = Luxemburg oder Lutzelbourg?
    Aldenburg = Altenburg

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    Re: [Split] Quaternionenadler

    Vielen Dank fuer that, Markus, you're very helpful!
    Quote Originally Posted by markusnaser View Post
    Maidburg = burgraves of Magdeburg
    Magdaburg = Magdeburg
    Maybe one of these is something else? The Crests are very different.

    Oh, and you forgot the third one down on the last feather - Rottenburg I read it as. ?

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    Re: [Split] Quaternionenadler

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Vielen Dank fuer that, Markus, you're very helpful!

    Maybe one of these is something else? The Crests are very different.

    Oh, and you forgot the third one down on the last feather - Rottenburg I read it as. ?
    Rothenburg (ob der Tauber), Bavaria I would think.

    -Hyge sceal ðe heardre, heorte ðe cénre, mód sceal ðe máre, þý úre mægen lytlaþ. -The Battle of Maldon
    -I love the great despisers, because they are the great adorers, and arrows of longing for the other shore. -Thus Spake Zarathustra

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