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Thread: Get Yourself a Constitution!

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Get Yourself a Constitution!

    There is much talk in Europe at the moment regarding the proposed Draft Constitution of the EU.

    This got me to looking at the thing itself and comparing it with others [particualrly the US Constitution].

    This leads me to ask;

    What would you put in the Constitution of your ideal State?
    What areas would you cover?
    Where would power reside?
    What specifics would you include?
    What about a separation of powers?

    Etc., etc.,

    Any remarks regarding constitutions would be welcome, including examples from the ancients to the moderns - let's get thinking here, if only to be able to answer our critics when they challenge us to provide a full programme.


    Magna Carta
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, April 29th, 2004 at 06:21 PM. Reason: added pic
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post

    Perhaps some definitions are in order to get things going.

    "A 'Constitution' is the body of rules governing the structure, organisation and procedure of any corporate body...
    More specifically it is the fundamental political principles of a state, which determine such matters as the composition, powers and procedure of the legislature, executive and judiciary, the appointment of officers, and the structure of offices which authorise, express and mediate the exercise of power".
    [Scruton, Dictionary]

    Now, Constitutions like to begin with a 'Preamble', so we could start there before getting down to the nuts-and-bolts of the thing.

    Let's take the current EU Draft Constitution as an example;

    ------------------
    PREAMBLE

    "Our Constitution ... is called a democracy because power is in the hands not of a minority but of the greatest number".
    [Thucydides II, 37]

    Conscious that Europe is a continent that has brought forth civilisation; that its inhabitants, arriving in successive waves from earliest times, have gradually developed the values underlying humanism: equality of persons, freedom, respect for reason

    Drawing inspiration from the cultural religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, the values of which, still present in its heritage, have embedded within the life of society the central role of the human person and his or her inviolable and inalienable rights, and respect for law

    Believing that reunited Europe intends to continue along the path of civilisation, progress and prosperity, for the good of all its inhabitants, including the weakest and most deprived; that it wishes to remain a continent open to culture, learning and social progress; and that it wishes to deepen the democratic and transparent nature of its public life, and to strive for peace, justice and solidarity throughout the world

    Convinced that, whil remaining proud of their own national identities and history, the peoples of Europe are determined to transcend their ancient divisions and, united ever more closely, to forge a common destiny,

    --------------

    The lack of full stops is in the original.
    There is much for us to disagree with here, but could we revise it to suit a more racial nationalist outlook?
    Of course we could.

    For example, over forty years ago, Oswald Mosley's National Party of Europe made a Pan-European Declaration along with like-minded German, Italian and French groupings; the Preamble began by stating that European tradition;

    "...derives from classic Greece and Rome and a civilisation of 3,000 years: A European communion of blood and spirit ..."

    That immediately hits the right note.
    So let's re-write this modern Draft Constitution to suit ourselves!
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Mosley's Preamble

    To get a better idea of a good preamble, I should quote Mosley's in full, so that it can be compared to the EU one given in the post above;

    ---------------------

    Mosley's EUROPEAN DECLARATION, Venice 1962

    WE, being Europeans conscious of a tradition which derives from classic Greece and Rome,
    Of a civilisation which during 3,000 years has given thought, beauty, science and leadership to mankind,
    And, feeling for each other the close relationship of a great family, whose quarrels in the past have proved the heroism of our peoples,
    But whose division in the future would threaten the life of our continent with the same destruction which extinguished the genius of Hellas, and led to the triumph of alien values,
    Now declare with pride our European communion of blood and spirit in the following urgent and practical proposals of our new generation which challenge present policies of division, delay and subservience to the destructive materialism of external powers before which the splendour of our history, the power of our economy, the nobility of our traditions and the inspiration of our ideals must never be surrendered.

    ----------------------

    Despite the way I have set it out, notice that it is only one long sentence.
    It should be read closely as it packs a lot into a few words, and describes the essence of Europeanism.
    Can it be bettered?
    Who can put forward an improved version without losing the poetry of the original?
    This preamble gives us the impetus to work on what should be in our 'constitution'.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Myatt's Constitution, Chapter 1

    David Myatt has written an excellent Constitution.
    To look at some of the points made in its first chapter;

    Introduction. Myatt writes;
    "The Constitution of a Folk Culture exists to create, maintain and advance the cultural, social, political and economic institutions of a society based on Folk Culture ideals and principles".

    This gives a broad scope as befits a proper Constitution.
    Myatt defines Government as that which;
    "Represents the collective political ideal and will of a people who share a common culture, a common out-look, and a common cultural heritage".

    The beauty of a Constitution is that it allows us to out-line our position with as little ambiguity as possible. Myatt says;

    "THE ECONOMY IS A MEANS, NOT AN END".

    We are here dealing with important principles;

    "The family is the fundamental unit of society and the foundation for the noble growth of human beings ..."

    Myatt entitles Chapter I of his Constitution, as 'General Principles' - these principles include;
    i) "The Way of the Folk" -
    [This is Myatt's pantheistic paganism].
    ii) "Folk Culture",
    iii) "the leadership principle",
    iv) "the dignity and value of human beings",
    v) "personal honour",
    vi) "Reason",
    vii) "the sciences and the arts",
    viii) "the negation of all forms of injustice and oppression".
    [Article 2]

    These are among the foundations of Myatt's system.
    Upon these he builds in the next Article 3;
    iii) "free education and physical training for all members of the community",
    ix) "universal military training",
    x) "to create welfare, eliminate poverty, and abolish all forms of deprivation with respect to food, housing, work, healthcare, with the provision of social insurance for all",
    xv) "abolishing speculation in and the foreign ownership of land".

    In these selections, we are reminded of the NSDAP's 25 Points at times.
    The following should come as no surprise, then;

    Article 5:"The overall leadership of the community will devolve upon a just, noble and honourable leader".

    The Leadership Principle, then, is alive in Myatt's Constitution.

    Here, he describes The Folk;
    Article 11: "In accordance with the principles of Folk Culture, all people of the same race and culture form a single community, and the government of the nation has the duty of formulating its general policies with a view to cultivating the friendship and unity of all kindred peoples, as it must constantly strive to bring about the political, economic, and cultural unity of those of the same kindred ..."
    Article 12: "The official religion of the nation is the Way of the Folk .... other religions, and ways of life, are to be accorded full respect ..."
    Article 13: "All established religions will be officially recognised ..."

    In this first chapter of his Constitution, Myatt shows that it is possible to adhere to a racial policy, and one under the Leadership Principle, which is also based on respect for others.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Aethrei's Avatar
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    Post Why the Aryan Law?

    > In this first chapter of his Constitution, Myatt shows that it is possible to adhere to a racial policy, and one under the Leadership Principle, which is also based on respect for others.

    This is a development from Schulz and Frercks' earlier Aryanist viewpoint :

    "In the long run, no idea is better suited to guarantee peace between
    nations than National Socialist racial thinking, which calls for the
    furtherance and maintenance of one's own race and one's own people, and supports similar efforts on the part of other nations. Such mutual respect which requires respect both for one's own nation and that of others rejects the forcible conquest of other nations, and history shows that it is useless as well.
    Imperialist strivings are rejected from the start, since they would mean an overlapping of one's own activities with those of others.

    There can be no doubt that, as in so many other areas, human
    generations develop in unified ways. But humanity finds its deepest meaning when the outward elements are determined by the character and spiritual characteristics that find their visible expression in race and
    nationality. No thought or feeling, if it is genuine and deep, can escape its racial boundaries.

    One of the fundamental principles of the National Socialist worldview
    is that there are not universal human principles, such as the Pan-European idea in politics or the idea of a human soup in racial terms. Judgments are only possible from life, which is racially determined. Being interested in and caring for one's kind is not to disparage foreign peoples and races.
    The Jews are responsible for charges that Germany puts all other peoples and races on earth on a lower level. Just as one cannot say that one animal or plant is better than another, one cannot make an objective value judgment between Europeans and Mongols. Their thinking and feeling about essential matters are different, which means they will have different cultures.
    We have our values, other peoples have theirs. Every variety of custom and culture is colored by the race or group from which produces it, as are judgments of such matters.

    Lasting peace is possible based on the consciousness of the ethnic or
    racial distinctiveness of each nation, and a recognition of their mutual right to existence rather than on the maintenance of some sort of power
    position. The new Germany that views its own race and ethnicity positively must therefore distinguish within its territory between one race and another, between one people and another. Mixing of blood harms both sides. Race is an issue for every people if they are to live according to their nature. The German people is not so arrogant as to believe that is is the chosen people.
    The familiar quotation from Geibel, "The world should enjoy German ways," should be understood in the context of the dreams of world betterment of those past days.

    The National Socialist racial viewpoint has clear consequences for the
    relationship between Germans and Jews. People have often said that
    National Socialism's approach to the racial question is purely negative and destructive, and that its essential characteristic is radical
    anti-Semitism.
    One must grant that we made the Jewish question clearer than anyone
    else,and taught an entire generation that had been taught to see all people the same to recognize the importance of the Jewish question not only for our people, but for the entire world. Our treatment of the Jewish problem in the years before we took power must be seen as the political education of the German people, which had lost its racial instincts to a dangerous degree." (Why the Aryan Law)


    Heil Wotan!

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Myatt Chapter II

    Hail Wotan indeed!
    Thanks for that quote.
    It seems that in the N-S period too much was attempted too soon; of course, history was riding hard at the heels of events and impelled good men to make some over-rash decisions.
    However, we have had Time now to stop and think, and to recollect our thoughts.
    It then falls to a naturally thoughtful man like Myatt to present a thoughtful Constitution.

    To look at some ideas from the second chapter;

    Chapter II: The Official Language, Script, Calender and Flag of the Nation.

    Myatt argues for an official language and script;
    "However, the use of regional languages and dialects should be encouraged in addition". [article 15]
    Article 17: "The official calender of the nation takes as its point of origin the birth of the homeland".
    Article 18: "The official flag of the nation is the rune flag composed of a black Odal rune in white circle against a red background, the Odal rune signifying the Folk community itself".

    Odal, or othil, actually means 'native homeland', and is the final rune in the Elder Rune-row.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Aethrei's Avatar
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    Post Flag

    > Article 18: "The official flag of the nation is the rune flag composed of a black Odal rune in white circle against a red background, the Odal rune signifying the Folk community itself".
    Odal, or othil, actually means 'native homeland', and is the final rune in the Elder Rune-row.

    Good idea; that is assuming of course all intra-European cultures share a Runic heritage. I would have suggested a circle with differing variations on our timeless Swastika from all our native cultures - pagan/christian, etc. - varying versions of the three/four foot wheel/cross - the eye of our Helios.

    The arc of our distinction will stand out from the Indus across the other side of the Atlantic.

    Heil!

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Chapter III

    Quote Originally Posted by Aethrei
    > Article 18: "The official flag of the nation is the rune flag composed of a black Odal rune in white circle against a red background, the Odal rune signifying the Folk community itself".
    Odal, or othil, actually means 'native homeland', and is the final rune in the Elder Rune-row.

    Good idea; that is assuming of course all intra-European cultures share a Runic heritage. I would have suggested a circle with differing variations on our timeless Swastika from all our native cultures - pagan/christian, etc. - varying versions of the three/four foot wheel/cross - the eye of our Helios.

    The arc of our distinction will stand out from the Indus across the other side of the Atlantic.

    Heil!
    Moody Lawless;
    Brilliant suggestion Aethrei, and a worthy addition to this Constitution!

    If I may go on with Myatt's Constitution, this time dipping into;

    Chapter III: The Rights of the People.

    Article 23; "The investigation of individuals' religious beliefs is forbidden, and no one may be molested or questioned simply for holding a belief".

    Aticle 27; "Every citizen of the nation has the right to possess weapons - including firearms - for the purpose of self-defence, to keep these weapons in their homes, and to bear and carry these weapons in public".

    Article 29; "To benefit from social security with respect to retirement, unemployment, old age, disability, absence of a guardian, and benefits relating to being stranded, accidents, health services, and medical care and treatment, is accepted as a universal right ".
    [This right is 'universal' for those who are members of the Folk only, of course - see article 41, below]

    Article 34; "All citizens have right of access to the courts".

    Article 37; "The criteria for passing sentences is that penalties should be compensatory, rather than punitive ...."
    "The death penalty is forbidden".

    Article 38; "All forms of torture are forbidden".

    Article 41; "Citizenship of the nation is not a right, but a privilege which must be earned by individuals proving, through service to the nation and their community, that they are worthy of this privilege".
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Aethrei's Avatar
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    Post Articles 27, 37 and 38

    Thanks.

    >Aticle 27; "Every citizen of the nation has the right to possess weapons - including firearms - for the purpose of self-defence, to keep these weapons in their homes, and to bear and carry these weapons in public".

    I don't agree with this; Nietzsche referred to the arming of the people as "the arming of the mob" [Will to Power, 754].
    I think this violates a mutual feeling of trust among our White Folk. What is the need for it if our Constitution comes into power? And to speak of any defense against aliens in our community, etc., would again mean we are not confident of our trust in our Law enforcers and Secret Police.
    A difference of opinion that existed between Mussolini and Hitler if I am not mistaken - I agree with the latter, against Arms.

    > Article 37; "The criteria for passing sentences is that penalties should be compensatory, rather than punitive ...."
    "The death penalty is forbidden".
    Article 38; "All forms of torture are forbidden".

    I want to compare this with Nietzsche.

    1. "Arbitrary law necessary. Lawyers argue whether that law which is most thoroughly thought out, or that which is easiest to understand should prevail in a people. The first type, whose greatest model is Roman law, seems incomprehensible to the layman and therefore no expression of his sense of justice. Popular laws, like the Germanic, for example, were crude, superstitious, illogical, in part silly, but they reflected quite specific inherited native customs and feelings.
    But when law is no longer a tradition, as in our case, it can only be commanded, or forced; none of us has a traditional sense of justice any longer; therefore we must content ourselves with arbitrary laws, which express the necessity of having to have a law. Then, the most logical law is the most acceptable, because it is the most impartial, even admitting that, in the relationship of crime and punishment, the smallest unit of measure is always set arbitrarily." [HH, 459]

    2. "The law, the thoroughly realistic formalization of certain conditions for the self-preservation of a community, forbids cerrtain actions directed to certain ends, namely those that are directed against the community: it does NOT forbid the DISPOSITION that produces these actions - for it needs these actions for other ends, namely against the enemies of the community. Then the moral idealist appears and says: "God beholds the heart: the action itself is nothing; one must exterminate the aggressive disposition that produces it..." [Will to Power, 204]

    3. "Self-defense. If we accept self-defense as moral, then we must also accept nearly all expressions of so-called immoral egoism; we inflict harm, rob or kill, to preserve or protect ourselves, to prevent personal disaster; where cunning and dissimulation are the correct means of self-preservation, we lie. To do injury intentionally, when it is a matter of our existence or security (preservation of our well-being) is conceded to be moral; the state itself injures from this point of view when it imposes punishment." [HH, 104]

    So, articles 37 and 38 agree with Nietzsche in that, punishment (even capital punishment) is based not on the criterion of guilt/Disposition, but on the deed or Action - so that it acts as a Deterrant. The concept of Justice in the hands of a noble morality reigns. Maintaining the Honour and tradition of the community is important.

    Heil!

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post

    Aethrei; Article 27; " 'Every citizen of the nation has the right to possess weapons - including firearms - for the purpose of self-defence, to keep these weapons in their homes, and to bear and carry these weapons in public'.
    [Myatt]
    I don't agree with this; Nietzsche referred to the arming of the people as 'the arming of the mob' [Will to Power, 754].
    I think this violates a mutual feeling of trust among our White Folk. What is the need for it if our Constitution comes into power? And to speak of any defense against aliens in our community, etc., would again mean we are not confident of our trust in our Law enforcers and Secret Police.
    A difference of opinion that existed between Mussolini and Hitler if I am not mistaken - I agree with the latter, against Arms."

    Moody Lawless; This is such a thorny question; there is a great atavism which demands that each Aryan free-man may carry a weapon with him at all times as a 'right'.
    But of course, this feeling is attached to an historicised consciousness, when the weapon of choice would have been some kind of knife or dagger etc., Once we move into the era of powerful guns and so forth, then we may start perhaps to question such a 'right' to carry arms.
    As Schopenhauer says, our rights only extend as far as they do not do harm to others; given today's weaponry such a right may induce more harm than can be tolerated.
    Of course, in Myatt's view military service will be compulsory, and so all citizens would be trained users of weaponry; but as you say, their desire to carry on using arms may have to be conditional upon their joining the various armed forces [I presume then, that you think the domestic police force should be always armed].
    I am not completely against Myatt's idea, as I think we may have to see it in the over-all context of his State idea in a way that has not become fully apparent yet.
    So, while I am not against arms in principle, I think that the modern situation must make us be more cautious.

    Aethrei; Article 37; "...penalties should be compensatory, rather than punitive ...."[Myatt]
    "Popular laws, like the Germanic, for example, were crude, superstitious, illogical, in part silly, but they reflected quite specific inherited native customs and feelings.
    But when law is no longer a tradition, as in our case, it can only be commanded, or forced; none of us has a traditional sense of justice any longer".
    [Nietzsche, HH, 459]

    Moody; Myatt's tendency seems to be toward an attempted revival of the old Germanic laws [and doesn't the 25 Points of the NSDAP call for the replacement of Roman law by Germanic law?]. If we think it possible that the Folk can re-connect with their pre-Roman, pre-Christian past, and so revivfy their ancient customs, then Myatt's position is vindicated.
    Of course, this may be utopianism, and such things as the duel, trial by combat, exile, outlawry and compensationary justice may never be revived.
    Again, this is a thorny question.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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