Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Dacian Origins of both Romanian and Albanians Languages

  1. #1
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Online
    Wednesday, February 28th, 2007 @ 05:02 AM
    Subrace
    Pontid+Alpinid
    Country
    Romania Romania
    Location
    In Exile
    Gender
    Age
    34
    Family
    Single
    Occupation
    Student
    Politics
    What are politics?
    Religion
    Christian-Orthodox
    Posts
    29
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Dacian Origins of both Romanian and Albanians Languages

    Romania and Albania share almost 160 words. These words are of Dacian origin.

    Arguments for:


    Albanian shares several hundred common words with Romanian (Romanian: A native or inhabitant of Romania) , believed to be part of the Dacia (Dacia: dacia, in ancient geography the land of the daci or getae, was a large district of central...

    [follow hyperlink for more...]) n substrate (see: List of Dacian words (List of Dacian words: this is a partial list of dacian words found in romanian....

    [follow hyperlink for more...]) ), as well as grammatical and phonological features (see: Balkan language union (Balkan language union: balkan linguistic union or balkan sprachbund is a name given to the similarities...

    [follow hyperlink for more...]) ).


    Vladimir Georgiev claimed that the phonetics of the Dacian language (Dacian language: the dacian language was an indo-european language spoken by the ancient people of dacia....

    [follow hyperlink for more...]) (based largely on his interpretation of the toponyms) are close to those of Albanian. Names of the cities that follow Albanian phonetic laws (which include Shtip, Shkupi (Shkupi: skopje (macedonian: , albanian shkup,...

    [follow hyperlink for more...]) and Nish (Nish: more facts about this subject) ) are in the areas once inhabited by Thracians, Dardani (Dardani: the dardani were an ancient indo-european tribe that lived in dardania and was likely of...
    [follow hyperlink for more...]) , and Paionians (Paionians: more facts about this subject).

    There are some correspondances between Thracian and Albanian words, but few in comparison to the body of material.


    Arguments against:


    Many Dacians and Thracian placenames were made out of joined names (such as "Sucidava" or "Bessapara"), while Albanian language does not allow this.

    - there are no records that indicate a migration of Dacians into present day Albania.

    - from the extensive body of Thracian and Dacian words, names, and language-elements, only a very small number of them have been linked to Albanian; the great majority of Daco-Thracian words and names do not have Albanian correspondances.

    - the common non-Romance words between Albanian and Romanian may possibly be explained by another scenario, and some of these common words may have been words that were exchanged between proto-Albanians and Dacians and Thracians in ancient times, the exchange going both ways, however, this would not explain the common Romance words and expressions.

    - the closeness in phonetics between Dacian and Albanian that Vladimir Georgiev claimed is not accepted by a large number of linguists; it has been challenged and even possibly disproven, and is based on fragmentary evidence.

    - the Balkan language union may date back to Neolithic times, so what phonetic similarities may have existed between Dacian and Albanian could be explained by linguistic interactions over the centuries.

    - It is clear from linguistic analysis that the proto-Albanian language and the language of the Romanian substratum were already no longer one language (if they ever were) before the Roman conquest of Dacia; so the proto-Albanian speakers and the speakers of Romanian's substratum language most likely were not both living in the same area (Dacia, etc.) at the time of the Roman conquest.


    Could Albanian be a Dacian dialect?

  2. #2
    Account Inactive

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    Saturday, June 11th, 2016 @ 12:27 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    CM-Atlantidish
    Country
    England England
    State
    Lancashire Lancashire
    Location
    Mamvcivm
    Gender
    Age
    40
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    British
    Posts
    3,589
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    25
    Thanked in
    25 Posts

    Re: Dacians and Albanians

    Could albanian be a dacian dialect?

    Why Dacian? There were at least three large ethnic collectives in the nonHellenic Balkans in Classical times, Thracians, Dacians and Illyrians. The relationships of each to the others are by no means well understood.

    The commonalities between Rumanian and Albanian may have several explanations, and choosing between them is going to need a good deal of dispassionate and thorough hard effort. Sadly, political circumstances in the region prevent any serious breakthroughs.

    Unfortunately, this is one of those spheres in which the further you delve, the more confused you become! I would advise anyone wishing to tackle it to learn 4 or 5 Albanian dialects [Gheg, Tosk, Arvanite etc.], Arumanian, Dalmatian, several rural dialects of Rumanian, Latin, Phrygian, Armenian and Greek, then do a course in historical linguistics, learn the rudiments of sheepfarming and travel the Balkans for a few years. They might also consider then examining the possible Palaeobalkan influences noted in the Burushaski language isolate of the Himalayas...

  3. #3
    New Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Last Online
    Monday, October 9th, 2006 @ 08:58 PM
    Subrace
    Dinarid
    Country
    Other Other
    Gender
    Posts
    2
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Dacians and Albanians

    Albanian is Illyrian language not Dacian

    And Dacian language is derived from Illyrian language

  4. #4
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    Monday, October 9th, 2006 @ 03:24 AM
    Subrace
    English
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Family
    Single, not looking
    Politics
    Tribalist
    Religion
    Anglo-Saxon Heathen
    Posts
    71
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Re: Dacians and Albanians

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Could albanian be a dacian dialect?

    Why Dacian? There were at least three large ethnic collectives in the nonHellenic Balkans in Classical times, Thracians, Dacians and Illyrians. The relationships of each to the others are by no means well understood.
    I have to ask the same thing. I have always heard that the Albanians felt that they were descendants of the Illyrians, the major IE people in the region besides the Thracians, and Greeks. While the Wikipedia is debatable at times, here is their take on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Albanians

  5. #5
    Account Inactive

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    Saturday, June 11th, 2016 @ 12:27 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    CM-Atlantidish
    Country
    England England
    State
    Lancashire Lancashire
    Location
    Mamvcivm
    Gender
    Age
    40
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    British
    Posts
    3,589
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    25
    Thanked in
    25 Posts

    Re: Dacians and Albanians

    Quote Originally Posted by grazny View Post
    Romania and Albania share almost 160 words. These words are of Dacian origin.
    I wonder can any Rumanian or Albanian provide us with this list, so that we may judge for ourselves?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Mercator's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Online
    Friday, February 1st, 2019 @ 07:35 PM
    Ethnicity
    Iberian
    Ancestry
    Spain/Italy/France
    Subrace
    Mediterranid
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    SGBA
    Gender
    Family
    Single
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    963
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Question Re: Dacians and Albanians

    What about Albania-Tchechenia connection?

  7. #7
    Account Inactive

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    Saturday, June 11th, 2016 @ 12:27 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    CM-Atlantidish
    Country
    England England
    State
    Lancashire Lancashire
    Location
    Mamvcivm
    Gender
    Age
    40
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    British
    Posts
    3,589
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    25
    Thanked in
    25 Posts

    Re: Dacians and Albanians

    I believe they attempt to connect Albanian with the Udi language of the Azeri/Dagestani border regions, rather than with Chechen. It's rather unrealistic and founded on the superficial fact that Classical writers named the region 'Albania' once upon a time.

    Oddly enough, I've seen some Serbs claim a Chechen link! How funny it'd be if the two deadly enemies did indeed share a Northeast Caucasian heritage!

    About Dacian/Albanian, it should be borne in mind that there exist very sound hypotheses that suppose transdanubian Rumanian to have been brought there by Vlachs from the region of modern Kosovo/Macedonia.

  8. #8
    Account Inactive

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    Sunday, December 10th, 2006 @ 03:45 AM
    Country
    Greece Greece
    Location
    Athens
    Gender
    Family
    Engaged,looking
    Religion
    Orthodox
    Posts
    90
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Dacians and Albanians

    Dacians were another Thracian tribe, as far as I know.

  9. #9
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    Monday, October 9th, 2006 @ 03:24 AM
    Subrace
    English
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Family
    Single, not looking
    Politics
    Tribalist
    Religion
    Anglo-Saxon Heathen
    Posts
    71
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Re: Dacians and Albanians

    Quote Originally Posted by Melenios View Post
    Dacians were another Thracian tribe, as far as I know.
    The Dacians, Thracians, and Illyrians were all fairly closely related from what I understand.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Genfluss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    Friday, October 27th, 2017 @ 04:59 AM
    Ethnicity
    European-American
    Ancestry
    British Isles & Continental Europe
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Family
    Single
    Religion
    Asatru
    Posts
    263
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: Dacians and Albanians

    Not to get off track with the Dacians/Albanians but here are just some examples I'd like to share about Albanians in general. Continue the subject, with Dacian and Albanian linguistics. Apologize, if anything is incorrect or repeated. I'm not arguing for Albanians or whatever. Again, I wish I could find more links about this. Perhaps Stormfront, and other based opinions about Albanians (Turko-Chechen tribes) could be right, perhaps Albanian behavior explains this. I guess this all boils down to opinion in the end.


    My Analysis/Intake:

    Some believe the Caucasus/Kavkaz theory others don't, I don't know which one is correct. However, I do know that the foreign influx of different sub-races in Albania is significantly lower than Azerbaijan, Chechnya, Georgia, Armenia etc (Eu11). In Coon's book The Races of Europe Albanians were of Dinarid type. I don't understand when Albanians are labeled "non-white?" Typical Armenids don't exist in Europe and are rather from recent immigration and more or less Armenoid, but not the typical Armenid types/morphology found in Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan etc. Armenids belong to a different adaptation in the Caucaus regions, whereas Dinarids are European mountainous herder variants/healthy rural types, herder-warriors and mobile farmer-warriors, more like the Nordid specialisation. There is a thread all about this, but this has nothing to do with the Dacians and Albanians, sorry to get off track. Here is some information I found about Albanians.


    Sub-races:

    Albanians are mostly Dinarids (both Adriatid and Norid) but have strong Alpinoid (Gorid), Mediterranid (West-Gracil/East) and Cromagnoid (Southern) strains, additionally Nordid (East-Nordid? Skandonordid? Dalofaelid?)and Osteuropid (West/East-Baltid) is present, Armenoid or other forms (Gypsies/Indid/Arabid) are just a small minority. Dinarids-Alpinoids-Pontids are most dominant in that order, or a mix. Depending on the mix of Y-chromosome haplotypes in the individual f.e. more Eu7 (I1b) Eu8 (I1a?) Eu 18 (Roman/Celtic Eu19 (Slavic) influence in the individual you may find a mixed Nordid or Nordoid-Dinarid/Norid/Baltid appearance in these types and are relatively rare, imo. The Mitchondria is of course European, H, (Dinarid) which is dominant among Females. L1/L2/L1a markers are virtually not present, if Negroid admixture wants to be added on a low-level.


    Language Theories between Dacians/Albanians:
    http://www.geocities.com/cogaionon/article9.htm


    A Ridiculous link between Albania and Atlantis:
    http://albhistory.netfirms.com/atlantis1.html


    Origin of Balkan peoples:

    Slovenes, Croats, Serbs, Albanians, Monenegrins all have the same ancestors to a certain extent. Some in lesser some in greater degree. The ancestry is strictly and exclusively European proto-Illyrian. None of these nations have anything incommon with Kurdistand, Armenia, Azeribaijan or Chechnya.

    -Romania-Dacian,

    -Bulgaria-Thrachian,

    -Ukraine-Scythian,

    -North Italy-Venets,

    -Hungary-Illyrian,

    -Slovakia-Illyrian,

    -Austria-Illyrian,

    -Albania-Illyrian,

    -Greece-Achean or Dorian,

    -Former Yugos. - Illyrian,etc.


    Neolithic DNA in Europe consists of Eu4, Eu9, Eu10 and Eu11. Paleolithic DNA in Europe consists of Eu7, Eu18 and Eu19. The scientific research on the Albanian language can lead us to only one point - Albanians are a mix of Greeks, Slavs and Latins(Thraco-Illyrian remnants). Also genetic studies showed exactly what I pointed out before. Albanians are not homogenous, but a mix of almost all European haplotypes and markers which means that they certainly can't be "direct descendants" of anything but are a mix of various people. At most Neolithic-Upper Palaeolithic descendants due to the mixed haplotypes.

    The presence of haplotypic markers Eu9-Eu10-Eu11, can most certainly be explained by intermixture with Illyrians and Near East Neolithics (Middle Easterners/Eastern Mediterranoid contact), thus making a mixed I1b-J2-E3b population, or intermarriage with the Ottoman Turks, since Turks carry a vast array of different Neolithic markers J2 being most common, along with E3b and others. The Illyrian-Turkish theory seems correct, we can now see 17-20% of Illyrian I1b markers are present throughout the paternal lineages of Albania. Some rather mixed with Greek-E3b and of course more or less Illyrian-Turkish-Greek J2/E3b markers. Kosovo has some R1b markers U.P. West European. Nordic admixture definitely seems plausible for such markers, or more or less admixture with Nordic Serbs/Croats.

    All in all, Albanians seem to be predominately a mix of Greeks, Slavs, Illyrians, Vlachs, Turks and more or less with some Illyrian-Thraco, Vlach (Dacian), Greek, Slavic and Turkish influences. Albanians on the other hand especially in the south have quite a bit of Vlach (Greek, Roman, Illyrian-Thraco, Dacian) ancestry, and some although dark descended with Dinaro-Armenoid "asiatic" Turkish traits/ancestry, but such ancestry is not representative, being presented in such low quantities. Plus Albanians fit the 6 race scheme, pred. Dinarid, thus making them Europid. Whereas Azeris/Chechens are pred. Armenid with Dinarid tendencies.


    Regarding Y-Chromosome Haplotypes:

    R1a is mostly due to Slavic ancestry. I1b can be due to an ancient Illyrian migration (or pre-illyrian I1b refuge) or Slavic ancestry. I1a is Germanic(Goths, Vikings), but is very low in the Balkans. It's most common along the Danube River, where Germanics began settling there.

    J would be considered native, depends on the mutation. one J is common only in the balkans, while others are of middle eastern origin. There are different types of J. Ghegs (Northern Albanians) have very little I1b, which is interesting because Shkodra was Illyrian in ancient times. Southern Albanians have absorbed Hellenised Illyrian/Slavic elements (I1b)

    Illyrian I1b 17-20% - Southern, Central, Coastal Albania
    Slavic (Serb/Croat/Bulgarian influx) 9.8-10% - Southwest Albania


    2nd Analysis

    Note: Chechen, Azeri, Armenian, Georgian markers aren't high in I1b/R1a and carry the dominant Y-Chromosome G Haplogroup (Eu11) as dominant, whereas Albanians are dominant J/J2.

    Albanian haplogroup Eu7 (I1b) is more or less common, rather than present in them to a small degree, I will agree that it's not their predominant haplotype. In Albania you will find the same haplogroups as you will in Germany, Serbia, Greece, Croatia, etc, obviously in much much lower degree though. E3b, I, J2, R1a and R1b as the genetic foundations of the region.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: Monday, April 27th, 2020, 03:10 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •