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Thread: [Split] Etymology of Scramaseax

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    [Split] Etymology of Scramaseax

    Moody Lawless posted the shield of the East Saxons in another thread on here,
    and it got me thinking. How do we know that the coats of arms of those shires that are based on an old Kingdom are 'authentic', so to say? They are of course already hallowed by time, but were they really the 'flags' of the Kingdoms of the Heptarchy? I believe so, as I see no reason why not, but it would be interesting to hear if anyone knows anything more in depth about this.

    [EDIT: The rest of this post on English heraldry can be seen here:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=50793
    The rest of this post is about the etymology of the word seax.
    -Leofric]
    Last edited by Leofric; Wednesday, March 29th, 2006 at 06:54 PM.

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    Re: Flags and Heraldry of English Kingdoms

    Does anyone know why scimitars were chosen for the East Saxon coat of Arms instead of a more northern european type of sword?

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    Re: Flags and Heraldry of English Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by thiedischer
    Does anyone know why scimitars were chosen for the East Saxon coat of Arms instead of a more northern european type of sword?
    Aye, it is odd. I suppose it's the conventions of heraldry. Heraldry did 'take off' after the Crusades...
    The original might well have been the famous Seax, from which the Saxons take their name. Do we have a good picture of one of them anywhere? Have any been found, for that matter?

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    Re: Flags and Heraldry of English Kingdoms

    On the Seax

    The most famous English seax is the 10 th century Thames Seax which has the runic 'futhorc' inlaid into its blade as well as its maker's name [already alluded to above].

    Here it is [the blade only survives];



    This is an important find not just in terms of the weapon, but also in terms of the rune row on it.

    There are other English finds, which includes this;



    This one is from the Wessex [West saxon] region, and is described;

    "A Saxon seax, from a 7th or 8th century AD burial. A seax is a short sword with a single cutting edge".

    That seems a good basic description.

    The classic form of the Seax is;



    The above is a modern version of course. It is described by the maker thus;

    "The seax, or sax, was the universally carried knife in Northern Europe. It was carried & used by the Saxons, Angles, Vikings, & German tribes. Its use dates before the fall of Rome & continues on into the early Middle Ages".

    Ironic that today's Saxons are *forbidden* to carry knives!
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Re: Flags and Heraldry of English Kingdoms

    Another name for that Germanic knife is the Scramaseaxe!

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    Re: Flags and Heraldry of English Kingdoms

    Hmm, in Russky, and perhaps in German, 'Shram' or ?'Schramm'? means 'scar'. Any connection?

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    Re: Flags and Heraldry of English Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu
    Hmm, in Russky, and perhaps in German, 'Shram' or ?'Schramm'? means 'scar'. Any connection?
    Its Schramme, it is beleived that the "Saxons" named themselves after the Seax.
    Like the Franks after the Franziska.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Re: Flags and Heraldry of English Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger
    Like the Franks after the Franziska.
    What, this one?

    [Franziska Knuppe, a fairly good looking woman who I'd never heard of before I did a web search to find out what a Franziska was!]
    Perhaps Franziska means something to you, that it doesn't to me? Like how a Gollandka [a Dutchwoman] is a kind of stove in Russia, and a Basque in English is sometimes a form of underwear...? And you are making a joke, which I can't 'get'? Frank is of course a readily understandable word meaning Freeman.
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    Last edited by Leofric; Wednesday, March 29th, 2006 at 06:55 PM.

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    Re: Flags and Heraldry of English Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu
    Perhaps Franziska means something to you, that it doesn't to me?
    That's the Franziska (Francisca) I mean,a throwing-axe

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisca

    Although, I used to be in love with her once

    Been a while though Franziska von Almsick
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Re: Flags and Heraldry of English Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu
    Hmm, in Russky, and perhaps in German, 'Shram' or ?'Schramm'? means 'scar'. Any connection?
    The name is more mundane;

    " 'Scram' refers to 'food' and 'seax' to a blade (so, 'food knife'). There is some debate about the authenticity of the longer word 'scramseaxe' ...."

    http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Seax/id/563334

    Although another source says;

    "The etymology of the word ['scrama', causing injury, and 'sax' (war)knife] ..."

    http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_euroedge.html

    Although it admits that the "precise meaning is unclear".

    This search on Swordforum under 'scramaseax' may yield some more info;

    http://tinyurl.com/khx4b
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
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