View Poll Results: Hyphenated Americans: Valid, or Invalid?

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  • I am AMERICAN and believe this notion is VALID.

    91 44.39%
  • I am EUROPEAN and believe this notion is VALID.

    30 14.63%
  • I am AMERICAN and believe this notion is INVALID.

    76 37.07%
  • I am EUROPEAN and believe this notion is INVALID.

    16 7.80%
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Thread: Hyphenated Americanism

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    Germans that immigrate to the US assimilate very rapidly, usually less than a generation. There are many reason for this and none to the liking of those that identify as Anglo-American or think that the US is an Anglo country. The main reason is that Germans are the largest ethic group in the US and many of the cultural things are the same except language. There is a bigger cultural difference between Great Britain and the US then there is between Germany and the US. This is especially true if you are in the Midwestern states.
    SpearBrave, I like you. But come on, this is a joke, right? Do you really think Juthunge would fit in here better than I do? That's kind of absurd.

    I mean you yourself don't even remotely resemble any German I've ever met or encountered, no offense intended. Outside of some language and cuisine, you appear to be completely different in outlook to all Germans I've encountered and totally out of sync with German social and political norms.

    You would never resemble what you are now if you hadn't assimilated a strong degree to a prevailing Anglo-Saxon established culture in the United States.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
    SpearBrave, I like you. But come on, this is a joke, right? Do you really think Juthunge would fit in here better than I do? That's kind of absurd.
    No, I mean that Juthunge would more than likely assimilate to Midwest culture much quicker then some one from England. It has been a long time since I have been to Oz, and then only one area of it. Yes, I would say most likely Juthunge would fit in more in day to day habits in many areas of the Midwest quicker than you would with the exception of your American wife. Though I have witnessed people from the West Coast try living here for economic reasons and hating it and they could not adapt and end up leaving.

    I mean you yourself don't even remotely resemble any German I've ever met or encountered, no offense intended. Outside of some language and cuisine, you appear to be completely different in outlook to all Germans I've encountered and totally out of sync with German social and political norms.
    I would not be so sure about that. I share more of the views of my relatives living in Germany than I do my relatives living in America. I am also more like most of the Germans I know that have immigrated here. I am by no means the typical American in many of my habits and culture, but that has more to do with my personality and my personal history than being an American.

    You would never resemble what you are now if you hadn't assimilated a strong degree to a prevailing Anglo-Saxon established culture in the United States.
    I never said I'm not an American or Hoosier to be more precise, and I will never be anything but a Hoosier and proud of that status. On the other hand I could adapt to living in Southern Germany better than I could England. I have lived a short time in England years ago and have visited Southern Germany recently. Trust me Americans living in the rural Midwest have more in common with rural Germans than they do with rural English people. America is becoming more and more homogenized every year and every year the area I live is becoming more of an East coast state in habit. I complain about it all the time, each generation is becoming less and less German around here, now to the point most of the younger ones are only recognized by their German surnames only. This is the reason I have been in active in the German/American Klub for all these years is to preserve as much as we can of our German culture and identity as possible. No offense to Anglo-Americans, but I live in an area that was predominately settled by Germans, there are many areas like this in the Midwest.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
    SpearBrave, I like you. But come on, this is a joke, right? Do you really think Juthunge would fit in here better than I do? That's kind of absurd.

    I mean you yourself don't even remotely resemble any German I've ever met or encountered, no offense intended. Outside of some language and cuisine, you appear to be completely different in outlook to all Germans I've encountered and totally out of sync with German social and political norms.

    You would never resemble what you are now if you hadn't assimilated a strong degree to a prevailing Anglo-Saxon established culture in the United States.
    Insofar as the general temperament in some parts of Midwestern America is concerned, I think he has a point. In states like Minnesota or North Dakota, the more quiet and reserved nature of the original Scandinavian and German settlers can still be seen to some degree in their descendants. Language aside, I do believe that on average at least, a modern-day German or Scandinavian would have an easier time feeling at home in these parts of the U.S. than would a modern-day Englishman.
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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    No doubt you could say that but I don’t think it’s, in that respect, entirely the same state of affairs in Germany/Europe as in the USA, yet. Third generation Turks for example are still seen as Turks by the average German even if they have German citizenship.

    We’re however headed the same way though and partly are already there, no doubt about that either. Slavs and southern Europeans are unfortunately already more accepted.
    Aha! Here you inadvertently validate the point I was trying to make in this post.

    I'm not saying that modern-day Germans aren't by and large morons when it comes to racial issues (especially West Germans), but they're not totally brain dead as evidenced by the fact that they still don't accept ethnic Turks as German.

    Although it's been almost 10 years since I last visited Germany, I didn't see anywhere near the type of integration of non-whites into German society as I've seen in places like the U.S., England, and Holland. As a mere German-looking visitor with a good German surname, I'm quite positive that, in general, I had more social capital with real Germans than the average Turk, no matter how fluent his German or how many generations of his family had lived in Germany.

    I'm not trying to contradict you, and I wouldn't be surprised if things have gotten worse in Germany since I was last there, and that each generation is more brainwashed than the last. The point I was trying to make is that there are still at least vestiges of racial feeling in Germany, more so than any other Germanic country. No matter how bad you think you have it, it's worse pretty much everywhere else.
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  5. #155
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    Turks assimilated rapidly in England when they arrived in the early modern period bringing coffee and saloop (now an extinct English custom due to overharvesting of wild orchids). I understand that in Germany they arrived in two waves: the older "German" Turks came in smaller numbers and assimilated similarly to Italians in the UK: they either went native or went back home.

  6. #156
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ward View Post
    Aha! Here you inadvertently validate the point I was trying to make in this post.

    I'm not saying that modern-day Germans aren't by and large morons when it comes to racial issues (especially West Germans), but they're not totally brain dead as evidenced by the fact that they still don't accept ethnic Turks as German.

    Although it's been almost 10 years since I last visited Germany, I didn't see anywhere near the type of integration of non-whites into German society as I've seen in places like the U.S., England, and Holland. As a mere German-looking visitor with a good German surname, I'm quite positive that, in general, I had more social capital with real Germans than the average Turk, no matter how fluent his German or how many generations of his family had lived in Germany.

    I'm not trying to contradict you, and I wouldn't be surprised if things have gotten worse in Germany since I was last there, and that each generation is more brainwashed than the last. The point I was trying to make is that there are still at least vestiges of racial feeling in Germany, more so than any other Germanic country. No matter how bad you think you have it, it's worse pretty much everywhere else.
    I think you meant rather this one of your posts and my response to it?

    Actually I even thought about our conversation there when writing my post and wondered if I was entirely correct.
    I think the aversion of not seeing Turks as Germans is largely subconscious and speaks for the existence/strength of a racial instinct. Due to the latter, you certainly also had more social capital with Germans than racial others, no doubt.

    They’re however, too afraid/indoctrinated, to draw any meaningful conclusions from it. That’s what I largely meant in the post in the other thread.
    Being unable to draw conclusions from it, is especially the case because most Germans, until quite recently, actually lacked contact with the extreme forms of racial others. For all their foreignness, of the non-European groups, the Turks are still the most related group of them.

    Because of that it will be “interesting” how my countrymen will behave towards racial others from now on, especially since the influx is sudden and massive, as opposed to the more continuous influx that historically happened in Britain and the USA over the years.
    Reality will probably hit them like a brick.


    Thanks everyone for using me as an example for immigration into the USA, by the way.
    Since I’ve never actually been to the USA, let alone the Midwest, I will withhold a strong judgement myself. From what I’ve seen from over here of mainstream American culture, I doubt I would fit in anywhere, however.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Turks assimilated rapidly in England when they arrived in the early modern period bringing coffee and saloop (now an extinct English custom due to overharvesting of wild orchids).
    Your point being?

    I understand that in Germany they arrived in two waves: the older "German" Turks came in smaller numbers and assimilated similarly to Italians in the UK: they either went native or went back home.
    Unless we’re talking about a handful of Ottoman prisoners of war used as chamberlains for the high nobility in the 1600s, most of whom will have been of Balkan origin, I don’t know which first “wave” of Turks you're speaking about.
    The wave of the Turks migrating from the 60s on never integrated, let alone assimilated, in any case. Individuals, as usual, excluded.
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
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  7. #157
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    I was speaking of earlier Turkish migrants into Germany and England. Thsat is all. The history of migration is interesting and important to understand. Most people on forums don't bother.

  8. #158
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    That individuals historically moved around is nothing new but it doesn’t change the grand scheme of things, namely the gene pool, to an appreciable degree.
    Usually, when something like this is brought up, it’s used to show that "mass immigration has always happened, we’re all mixed anyway, embrace diversity and just give up”.

    I’m not saying that was your point, it just seemed quite out of context here.
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Thanks everyone for using me as an example for immigration into the USA, by the way.
    Since I’ve never actually been to the USA, let alone the Midwest, I will withhold a strong judgement myself. From what I’ve seen from over here of mainstream American culture, I doubt I would fit in anywhere, however.
    You are welcome, we use when we can.

    The thing is about your statement here is that what you view as "mainstream American culture" is not very real if you are not living in America. Most non-Americans only see what is produced from Hollywood and other media sources and really that does not portray everyday American life and reality. Though I complain constantly about American homogenization there still are cultural differences from one area to another and they are noticeable if you travel all of America. I would not say the differences are vast, but there are differences. Mostly I see the differences in rural life compared to urban/suburban life. After having lived in all three for extended periods, I'm a pretty good judge of these things mainly because I have always been very curious with how others live.

    After chatting with you in the shout box and other things, You would fit in here pretty quick even though you may never want to.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

  10. #160
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    Any thoughts about Woodward?



    Or Garreau?


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