View Poll Results: Are Germans and Austrians the same ethnically, culturally, etc.?

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  • Yes, they are.

    196 83.40%
  • No, they aren't.

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Thread: How Do Germany and Austria Compare?

  1. #131
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    de./at.

    The one who has not visited either countries can talk bla,bla,bla, on the net. For those who HAVE VISITED both parts of europe the big differences are clear.
    The mentality is totally different, the History, the religion, the Language/dialekt...a trench is between them, a huge gap. We could say that we bavarians understand ourselves good with austrians, but austrians and prussians for example? Forget it! That's why in Austria you will hear the word "Piefke(s)" it is referring to the germans and-it-is-not-so-good....In Bavaria on the other Hand, especially in the countryside you will hear "saupreiss" =swine prussian...no comment
    That Austrians have a german ethnicity doesn't make them germans. In germany itself it was the prussian spirit that was predominant at all times, even today. And it was that spirit that ruined europe after two world wars. What if the south mentality, austrian or bavarian had more influence in Berlin? the next time you are in europe, in a country occupied by the germans in WWII ask the locals their opinion about Austrians. Many austrians had to fight for the wehrmacht or even wanted to fight for the Waffen SS, but you'll be amazed of what the locals will say to you. I ve made this experiment every summer. And regardless if it were in Czech republic, in Poland, In Russia, in Greece (crete and elsewhere) France, Netherlands, Norway the vote was unanimous...Everybody loved Austrians!
    that can't be coincidence, even if it upsets some germans...

  2. #132
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    Wahrheit Macht Freiheit.
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  3. #133
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    Hmm... most of austrians are germans by blood, but with more slavic influences especially in Vienna, Lower Austria, Styria and Carinthia, as well as hungarian influences in the Burgenland. Upper Austria, Salzburg and Tyrol are mostly bavarian. Vorarlberg is mostly alemannic with strong celto-romanic influences in the south.

    But the bigger part of the austrians since the 70ies don't see themself as germans.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmreiter View Post
    Hmm... most of austrians are germans by blood, but with more slavic influences especially in Vienna, Lower Austria, Styria and Carinthia, as well as hungarian influences in the Burgenland.
    By that standard one could refer to Berlin as a former Slavic fishing village, too.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    I have only skim read most of the posts on this thread, so I am just generalising on my post, and one thing I believe we can rely on as far as seeing ourselves as one People, is the creeping Islamification of Europe which will unify all the Germanic/Scandinavian peoples. Unless our Governments get to grips with the inflow of these and other 3rd Worlders, there is going to be one mighty upheaval in our Lands very soon.
    Our land was won for us by our forefathers; their blood is in its soil. All Nations need a land of their own in which they can live with their own Laws, and practice their customs in peace and freedom. Such a Land is an inheritance to be treasured and defended.
    What was won at great cost by the brave can be lost cheaply by fools, and once gone can rarely be regained, and then only at great cost.

  6. #136
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    I've always considered the Austrians to be a German peoples, however I noticed animosity between the two countries and peoples. In Austria, peoples usually do not like to be called German, eventhough they speak a German language and practice a German culture, like other Germans from all over the world. The question is, how much of this animosity is "neighbor teasing" and how much of it is it a result of post WWII indoctrination - since the union between Germany and Austria was completed under Hitler, a lot of peoples associate German identity with national socialism, and hence reject previous history outright. Here an article explaining some of the differences between the two, and how the outside world perceive it:

    Austria and Germany: Worlds Apart

    Billy Wilder (1906-2002), the noted Austrian-American film director (Double Indemnity, Stalag 17, Some Like It Hot), as famous as he was, used to complain about how he was frequently misidentified as German. Americans often get Austria and Germany mixed up. Sometimes they even confuse Austria with Australia! Thus the joke T-shirts and signs found in Austria with a “no kangaroos” logo. Silly Americans!

    Never really that good at geography, Americans, even if they can find Austria on a map, also tend to be ignorant of the many great and subtle differences between the small Alpine republic (population 8.4 million), known as Österreich, and its much larger neighboring republic to the north, known as Deutschland (population 80 million). Austria is only about the size of the US state of South Carolina. Germany is slightly smaller than Montana. In some ways, the two countries can be compared to the United States and Canada, or the US and Great Britain (with the sizes reversed): They both speak the same language, but with significant differences, and they share a common history that has made them friends, yet has also left them worlds apart.

    Even English-speakers with a modicum of German can hear the difference between the lilting, almost musical tones of Austrian German versus the less lilting, more crisp sound of standard German (Hochdeutsch). Bavarian, on the other hand, is very similar to Austrian. (Bavaria being a state in Germany, yet not quite part of Germany. Rather like Texas in a way.) The difference between Austrian German and standard German is similar to the difference between the drawling language heard in the US South versus the more standard English of the US Midwest or West.

    Yet, for a country so small in area, Austria has an amazing variety of dialects and regional differences. A remnant of the much larger former Austro-Hungarian empire, Austria today is one of Europe’s most prosperous nations, but there are in fact three Austrias. Austria No. 1 is Vienna (Wien). Unlike Germany, which is also made up of many regions, Austria is heavily dominated by its capital, with 2.3 million people living in the metro area. Austria No. 2 is made up of a few other cities, none of them anywhere near as large as the capital. Graz (265,000), Linz (191,000), Salzburg (148,000) and Innsbruck (121,000) are the only urban centers with a population over 100,000. The third Austria is the rural, small-town Austria that stretches from the western Vorarlberg that butts up against the Bodensee (Lake Constance) and Switzerland, to the fascinating eastern lowland and lake region (Neusiedler See) that borders Hungary and Slovakia. There are also many regional dialects in Austria, ranging from Vienna, with its own distinctive sound, westward to Vorarlberg, with its Alemannic/Swiss dialect. The country is divided into nine provinces (Bundesländer), including Vienna.

    Many years ago, when I first laid eyes on Austria, I thought the country was one big national park. It may be small, but Austria has more scenery and panoramas per square kilometer than any place I’ve ever seen. Austria really is a scenic place. It’s one reason the Germans like to visit Austria as tourists. (Germans make up 40 percent of the tourists going to Austria each year.) They find the country quaint and folkloric. But Germans who live and work in Austria soon learn that they need to adapt to a more leisurely, laid back life style that is very different from Germany. Like Billy Wilder, Austrians do not like being categorized as “German” in any way, shape, or form. They also hate The Sound of Music and the kitschy, oversimplistic image of Austria it conveys, although that doesn’t stop some Austrians from exploiting the movie/musical for tourists in Salzburg.

    In the chart below I have listed some more differences between Germans and Austrians.

    Some Differences Between Austria and Germany
    Cultural and Other Comparisons

    Germans consider the Austrians amusing, charming and quaint.

    Austrians consider the Germans humorless, arrogant and rigid.

    About 32 percent* of Germans are smokers. Non-smoking laws are enforced.

    About 43 percent* of Austrians are smokers, but it seems like much more. Non-smoking laws are NOT enforced.

    Smoking Rates (Percentage) (WHO, 2008)
    Austria: 43% – males 46.4%, females 40.1% – Germany: 31.6% – 37.4 (males), 25.8 (females)

    German Terms
    Brötchen
    Kartoffel
    nicht wahr?
    ein bisschen
    Tomaten
    Johannisbeeren
    Schlagsahne

    Austrian Terms
    Semmel
    Erdapfel
    gell?
    a bisserl
    Paradeiser
    Ribisel
    Obers

    Germany is roughly divided evenly between Catholics and Protestants, few of whom go to church.

    About 75 percent of Austrians are Catholic. They and the Protestant minority (4 percent) rarely attend church.

    Germans have no pejorative term for Austrians. Austrians often use the disparaging term “Piefke” (“Kraut/Prussian”) for a German.

    Part of the Austrian tendency to bash Germans and Germany stems from Austria’s inferiority complex as a once much larger, now tiny country with a tenth of its large neighbor’s population. Austria also has a bit of a historical split personality. After World War II, Austria pretended it had been a victim of Hitler, rather than a willing participant after welcoming Hitler (an Austrian, but don’t tell anyone!) and the Nazis with open arms in 1938. Here’s how one American observer put it:

    In the constant onslaught of Germany-bashing, there is a harsh undercurrent. During World War II, Austrian-born Hitler was embraced by his home country, and Austria and Germany together constituted the Third Reich when Austria famously voted for “Anschluss” [“annexation”]. After the war, though, Austria rewrote their constitution and their history, claiming that Austrians were Hitler’s “first victims.” One gets the sense that while Germans have been doing their best to atone for their part in the atrocities, Austrians have been doing their best to forget they had anything to do with it. Thanks to these legal and historical maneuvers, Austria avoided shouldering the consequences that Germany faced after the war. On one hand, the snide remarks about Germany allow this hypocrisy to be clouded by a shield of imagined difference. – Ten Things to Know About the Viennese (Part 1) and Part 2 by Kate Wiseman

    Austria declared itself a neutral nation in 1955, but following the fall of the Soviet Union, Austria modified its definition of neutrality to accomodate a changing world. It allowed overflights for UN-sanctioned action against Iraq in 1991, and now participates in the EU’s Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP). When Austria joined NATO’s Partnership for Peace in 1995 and later participated in peacekeeping missions in Bosnia, it began to really bend its neutrality. The issue of possibly becoming a full NATO member is controversial, but the only part of the Constitutional Law on Neutrality of 1955 that remains fully valid today is not allowing foreign military bases in Austria.

    Austria joined the United Nations in 1955, the same year it once again became a sovereign nation after World War II. Vienna is home to a major UN office complex.

    In 2011 the Academy Award-winning actor Christoph Waltz (Inglourious Basterds, Django Unchained) appeared on Conan O’Brien’s late night talk show. When asked about the differences between Austria and Germany, Mr. Waltz, who can claim both Austrian and German citizenship, said it was “like the difference between a battleship and a waltz.” When Mr. O’Brien asked about the cliché that Germans have no sense of humor, a smiling Mr. Waltz replied, “That’s not a cliché.” Waltz was born and raised in Vienna, but he has a German father and an Austrian mother, giving him a unique perspective on the topic.

    While the Germans don’t seem to be all that obsessed with their southern neighbor, they aren’t beyond a jab now and then. In 2008, when Austria and Germany were opponents in the European Cup football (soccer) championships, the notorious German tabloid, Bild Zeitung, published an article listing 30 reasons “why Austrians are often idiots” (“30 Gründe, warum Ösis oft auch Dösis sind“). Some of the reasons translated into English:

    “Your flag is red-white-red so you can’t hang the thing upside down.”
    “Only 8.4 million people can understand your language.” (adding some of the vocabulary differences listed above)
    “The most famous Austrians are either dead (Mozart and Falco) or they’ve emigrated, like Arnold Schwarzenegger.”
    “Austrians are so shy, they only kiss their women on the hand.”

    I’ll close with this humorous comparison that has a certain grain of truth to it:

    What’s the difference between a German and an Austrian?
    The German wants to understand Austrians, but can’t.
    The Austrian understands Germans, but doesn’t want to.
    – Quoted in “Germany/Austria: Divided by a common language” by Filip Gańczak (www.presseurop.eu)

    – HF

    BOOKS: The only books on this topic are in German. Three of them are listed below. They can be purchased from Amazon.de.

    Streitbare Brüder: Österreich: Deutschland / Kurze Geschichte einer schwierigen Nachbarschaft
    (Quarrelsome Brothers: A brief history of a difficult neighborhood)
    von Hannes Leidinger, Karin Moritz, Karin Moser
    (Gebundene Ausgabe) from Amazon.de (€21.90)

    Piefke: Kulturgeschichte einer Beschimpfung
    von Hubertus Godeysen
    (Gebundene Ausgabe) from Amazon.de (€24.90)

    Servus, Piefke: Was sich ein Wiener in Deutschland so denkt
    von Severin Groebner
    (Kindle) from Amazon.de (€9.99)
    (Gebundene Ausgabe) from Amazon.de (€12.99)
    https://www.german-way.com/austria-a...art/#more-6013

    Here the article GERMANY / AUSTRIA: Divided by a common language:

    They speak the same language, or nearly, share a troubled past and increasingly watch the same TV shows. But they have a hard time putting up with each other, and yet can’t live without each other either. Germans and Austrians are one of the most baffling odd couples in Europe.

    What’s the difference between a German and an Austrian? The German wants to understand Austrians, but can’t; the Austrian understands Germans, but doesn’t want to. That’s just one of many jokes about Austro-German enmity. This year’s publication in Austria of Streitbare Brüder (Quarrelsome Brothers) has rekindled the gabfest over the rough relations between the two neighbours.

    “When a foreigner takes me for a German, it’s almost an insult. I wouldn’t mind being from any country, from Canada, Norway, the Czech Republic or Chile, but not from Germany,” snipes Austrian writer Franzobel, who doesn’t mince words when it comes to his northern neighbours: “They don’t get our jokes, they take everything seriously, they think they’re always right.”

    Vast majority welcomed Anschluss

    The German tabloid Bild doesn’t go easy on Austrians either, and lists 30 reasons to deride them, e.g.: “Your flag is red, white and red so you can’t hang it upside down. The most famous Austrians are either dead or they’ve emigrated, like Arnold Schwarzenegger." The Austro-German opposition reflects the old dichotomy between the Austrian and the Prussian. The former is a Catholic traditionalist, courteous and amiable. The latter is a stiff Protestant, arrogant and excessively formal, with an obnoxious penchant for lecturing the whole world.

    Back in the 18th century, Frederick the Great snatched almost the whole of Silesia from the Austrians. In 1866, at the Battle of Sadowa [aka Battle of Königgrätz], Wilhelm I ’s Prussian army crushed Franz Joseph’s imperial forces. But after World War I and the fall of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Austrians, reduced to living in a small state along the Danube, yearned to be incorporated into Germany. So it’s no wonder that, scarcely 20 years later, the vast majority welcomed the Anschluss, their country’s annexation by the Third Reich, with glee.

    Germans refuse to learn the "language"

    After the Nazis were defeated and their atrocities brought to light, on the other hand, Germanitude beat a hasty retreat. The Austrians tried to dodge any blame for the recent bloodbath, recounts Hannes Leidinger, co-author of Streitbare Brüder. The reconstructing country nursed its neutrality; its political establishment, along with the Viennese press, knocked themselves out building up the myth of Austria as Hitler’s first victim – as though they’d forgotten where the Führer was born. Austrians want to persuade the world that Hitler was German and Beethoven Austrian. Germans couldn’t care less, according to another joke about the Teutonic neighbours.

    The Viennese weekly Falter quips that the Germans, who make up the biggest immigrant community in the country after the Turks, are just as reluctant as the latter to integrate into Austrian society because they refuse to learn the language. As matter of fact, the Austrian idiom does differ in many ways from the German spoken in Berlin or Hannover. Austrian Palatschinken isn’t a kind of ham [Schinken in German], but a crêpe. Plum jam, or Pflaumenmus up north, goes by a Slavic moniker down south: Powidl.

    Never vacation in Austria again

    After the war, the authorities in Vienna made a point of setting themselves linguistically apart from big brother across the border. In 1949 German as such actually disappeared from the Austrian school curriculum for several years: it was still taught, of course, but officially termed the “language of instruction”. Nowadays, Austrian German is gradually losing its distinctive traits, partly owing to satellite and cable TV: many Austrians prefer German networks like RTL and SAT 1 to their ORF. Austrian singers wisely make an effort to learn standard pronunciation, a prerequisite for conquering the alluring German market.

    “Never vacation in Austria again!” exhorted Bild in 1994 after German tennis player Michael Stich got booed by an Austrian crowd. But the call to boycott the destination didn’t work: 40% of tourists to Austria are from Germany. “Without foreign holidaymakers, the Alpine republic would be an economic crisis zone,” admit the authors of the book. Per capita GDP in Austria (close to €37,000) is now higher than in Germany (less than €33,000). The days when Austrians bought used cars in Germany are gone. They’re the wealthier ones now, and their economy was not as hard hit as Germany’s. So the bottom line is the feuding neighbours can gibe and jeer at each other all they like, they’re condemned to put up with each other.
    The source: http://www.voxeurop.eu/en/content/ar...ommon-language

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  8. #137
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    I think that if Prussianism doesn't get in the way, there's no reason why Germany and Austria can't get along. Neither should Austria be the senior partner, when it's just an independent Bavaria. Whoever can bring Vienna in line with Germany, ought to be consulted for solutions in returning Ireland to Northern Irish objectives.

  9. #138
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    I've always considered the Austrians to be a German peoples, however I noticed animosity between the two countries and peoples. In Austria, peoples usually do not like to be called German, eventhough they speak a German language and practice a German culture, like other Germans from all over the world. The question is, how much of this animosity is "neighbor teasing" and how much of it is it a result of post WWII indoctrination - since the union between Germany and Austria was completed under Hitler, a lot of peoples associate German identity with national socialism, and hence reject previous history outright.
    Your average modern Austrian has an inferiority complex towards Reichsdeutsche, as is often the case with closely related peoples/nations were one is much smaller than the other(especially if that smaller part still dreams of its lost past glory). That's why they celebrate some victory in a random football friendly like they've just won a war for weeks.
    Besides that, it's indeed the strong desire to stylize themselves as the first victims of NS, whereas they greeted it with open arms and were vastly overrepresented in the ranks of the SS, NSDAP and KZ-guards. It's overcompensation.
    "Wenn die letzten und höchsten Güter von Volk und Vaterland auf dem Spiele stehen, versagen die juristischen Formen und Formeln, die auf Erden gemacht sind; wer zum letzten Kampf fürs Vaterland geht, holt sein Recht vom Himmel." - Ernst Moritz Arndt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Your average modern Austrian has an inferiority complex towards Reichsdeutsche, as is often the case with closely related peoples/nations were one is much smaller than the other(especially if that smaller part still dreams of its lost past glory). That's why they celebrate some victory in a random football friendly like they've just won a war for weeks.
    Besides that, it's indeed the strong desire to stylize themselves as the first victims of NS, whereas they greeted it with open arms and were vastly overrepresented in the ranks of the SS, NSDAP and KZ-guards. It's overcompensation.
    Austria was the cause for war to begin with, so it was an example of reverse psychology for the Allies to remove the responsibility from Vienna's hands, laying it all at the feet of Prussia once again. Trying and failing with Prussian novelty, the Austrians had itched to prove themselves worthy of their former "glory" in the Reich. It is due to Austrians overcompensating for their loss of prestige, that they made it seem they were more German than the Germans, as if Bavarians are the most legit Germans and their ability to remain "purer" than the Prussified Protestant "barbarians" got to their heads. Never mind the fact that Austrians were shut out for good reasons, from causing civil war, to acting as a fifth column and lording it over native Germans in the name of a foreign establishment, whereas the Germans had not been compromised of their own free will, until outsourcing government to Prussia as a substitute for Austria. "Anybody but Austria" was a mistake. Germany ought to have elected Orange-Nassau, Palatine Wittelsbach, Hanover or Saxony, as the best representatives for German interests. All of those options had glorious stands for Protestant freedom, within Germany and great prestige abroad. By abdicating self-rule, ostensibly out of the wish to avoid factions, Germany sealed their own fate, down the tubes twice in the 20th century. It's the Germans' own fault, that they lost their identity. I don't blame Austria or Prussia, because the Confederation made the choice, as Weimar did. It's no different than when England let the Stewarts back onto the throne, only to bring about the half-assed "Glorious Revolution", putting off true independence and self-rule until the American Revolution.

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