How Do Germany and Austria Compare?

[Imperator X]

You'd think being separate states for the past 500+ years would have something to do with cultural differences. But the Anschluss was short.. and please stop asking me if I've heard of things. I have.

They distinguish themselves from Germany. Obviously if they considered themselves to be German they would have wanted to continue with Anschluss.

After WWI the majority of Austrians wanted to become part of Germany, but because of the all-lies, they were not suffered to expand greater German territory because the (greater) Germans lost, they weren't suppose to GAIN territory.

When the Germans marched into Austria to solidify the Anschluss, Crowds of Austrians were parading, weeping, and waving the Blutfahne.

This attitude of modern Austrians to differentiate themselves from the Germans is petty and anti-intellectual. Who cares if Mozart was Austrian or German? We should re-establish a greater German consciousness. Most nations were split into different regions at one point, France = Normandy, Burgundy, Aquitaine, Britanny, Spain = Galiza, Castile y Leon, Andalusia, Catalonia etc.

[Siebenbürgerin]

In your View, are the Austrians German?

The Austrian Language is really a variety of the German Language. The Austrian Culture is very similar to Bavarian Culture.

Austrian German (Österreichisches Deutsch) is the national standard variety of the German language spoken in Austria and South Tyrol.

As German is a Pluricentric language, Austrian German is another standard variety in addition to the German spoken in Germany. Much like the relationship between American and British English, Austrian German is simply another standard form of the German language. It is codified in the "Österreichisches Wörterbuch" which states specific grammar rules and is a dictionary using Austrian spelling. In addition to this standard variety, in everyday life, most Austrians speak one of a number of High German dialects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_German


This is my first Poll, I hope I don't mess it up. :o

[Thrymheim]

Well I have two Austrian friends one calls himself German (when it suites him!) and the other will scream blue murder if you even suggest she is as I'm sure will be pointed out by someone with a better grasp of Austrian history than I Austria is a new country as such and at one point was in control of Germany not vice versa so maybe you could ask are Germans Austrian!!!

[Sigurd]

Well I have two Austrian friends one calls himself German (when it suites him!)

That'll be me, I presume?

and the other will scream blue murder if you even suggest she is

[bat squeak]"I'm - not - Geeeermaaan!" [/bat squeak]. Apologies to all others for the insider joke.

Anyway, personally I am of the opinion that a nation is identified by sharing a common history, language and culture. All those are the case for Austria and Germany, as well as to a lesser extent Switzerland, Luxemburg and Liechtenstein. Many people will try to argue that Austrian culture is something distinct, but that is a blatant lie. Some of German citizenship are culturally very proximate to us, that is the Alemannic and Bayuvar descended groups in the south, i.e. the Badeners, the Swabians, the Bavarians and to a lesser extent the Franconians. Again, they are much closer to us in culture than they are to let's say Frisians. So either one talks of a larger German cultural area, or not of a German culture at all. Just because the German nation is more federal, more regional than in the traditionally centralised nation states of Western Europe (something that only happened in Germany less than 150 years ago), doesn't mean it isn't a nation - there can be several definitions of nationhood.

Interesting book to read on this topic would also be Oesterreich - ein deutscher Sonderfall?, an excellent book written by the Austrian nationalist politician and MP, Andreas Mölzer (FPOe) in 1988. Hence, some of the facts are out of date now, such as the occasional reference to the GDR, but it is still rings true in its essential points. A must read for anyone who wants this question answered.

as I'm sure will be pointed out by someone with a better grasp of Austrian history than I Austria is a new country as such and at one point was in control of Germany not vice versa so maybe you could ask are Germans Austrian!!!

Indeed. At least until the fall of Metternich in 1848, the Austrians were superior to the Prussians in power - politically, if no longer economically (blame the Prussians for starting the Zollverein (Customs Union) and excluding us - within the Deutscher Bund (German Confederation). One could even argue without much hardship that up to the Austro-Prussian war in 1866 and that decisive battle at Königgrätz which made sure that one would go for the Kleindeutsch solution, the powers were still somewhat equal to that of the Prussians - Northern states would often side with the Prussians and look towards them for guidance, whilst southern states would look towards Austria for assistance.

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

I think the Austrians are Germans for a whole lot of reasons. But, twice Austrians have told me they speak Austrian, not German, and were a little sensitive about it.

[Aragorn]

Austrians are Germans, like Bavarians and Rhinelanders are german aswell.

Just because they have a own state, does not mean they stopted being German.

Germany was until 1871 only a geographic meaning.

Austrians who refuse being acknowledge that they are German, are nothing more then Germans in denial that they are German.

[CharlesDexterWard]

I have learnt, from a variety of sources, that Austrians, or Austrian Germans rather, are Germans. When you hear about famous Austrians in history, they are described as Germans by ethnicity. The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation and Deutscher Bund seem to confirm this notion of Germandom from a linear historical point of view. I think Austrians are Germans.

[Aragorn]

I found this map, which indicates Germany in 1984 if it had won the war.

Regardless if one claim all these land, that is not the question here, the fact is that Netherlands would be incorporated in Germany one way or the other.

[Sarmatt]

The excistance of many nations is defined by accident. I suppose that north german dialects in old times were more similiar to dutch than south german dialects, especially if we remember that Germany as a country excist for quite short time. Austria had another history, same Netherlands, so now they are different country. Austrian ethnicity is german, but it doesn't mean they are Germans. Czechs and Slovaks are both slavic and shared history, but it doesnt mean you could name Czech- Slovakian or viceversa.

Maybe it's only a matter of name, and if someone want be called German, why not?

At least, most of you, can try to find if your ancestors lived in Tyrol, Thuringen, Austria or whatever. In Poland its harder, "thanks" to Germans ;P

And about yours Dritten Reich map...Gruß aus Westpreussen

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/...a7ae20804.html

[Aptrgangr]

The excistance of many nations is defined by accident. I suppose that north german dialects in old times were more similiar to dutch than south german dialects, especially if we remember that Germany as a country excist for quite short time.

Dutch is a language originating from a German dialect, and not vice versa. A while ago it was not uncommon to use Dietsland (compare: Deutschland) for The Netherlands.

Austria had another history, same Netherlands, so now they are different country. Austrian ethnicity is german, but it doesn't mean they are Germans.

Just because the Austrians' ethnicity is German they are Germans! Dutch are Germans too, they left Germany in 1648 though - like Switzerland did.

Czechs and Slovaks are both slavic and shared history, but it doesnt mean you could name Czech- Slovakian or viceversa.

Slovaks are no Czechs, true, because they are two different ethnicities - Austrians are Germans though - originating form the tribe of the Bajuvarians and Allamanni in the very west.

Maybe it's only a matter of name, and if someone want be called German, why not?

Call yourself Germans and propose a re-union with Germany in Austria - and go to prison for 20 years.

At least, most of you, can try to find if your ancestors lived in Tyrol, Thuringen, Austria or whatever. In Poland its harder, "thanks" to Germans ;P

And about yours Dritten Reich map...Gruß aus Westpreussen

Quiz: which country had 250km of it's border beyond the ethnic frontier in the 1920s?