View Poll Results: Are Germans and Austrians the same ethnically, culturally, etc.?

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  • Yes, they are.

    196 83.40%
  • No, they aren't.

    26 11.06%
  • Other Opinion.

    13 5.53%
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Thread: How Do Germany and Austria Compare?

  1. #11
    Progressive Collectivist Agrippa's Avatar
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    AW: Germany and Austria

    Well, this topic was of great importance in my history classes and usually it was considered a failure to believe that the "small Austrian nation can't survive on its own". This was something which was stressed, that most Austrians had just complexes after the empires was lost and nobody believed that an independent small rest-Austria could survive. The rest of the argumentation is easy, a la after the war we made it, the friendly, happy nation was born, but some people just wanted to get rid of their "guilty past" by this move. So the "Austrian guilt" and "denial" and lax treatmeant of "Nazi-criminals" was important. Oftentimes teachers praised the "good German Vergangenheitsvergewaltigung - ah, Vergangenheitsbewältigung ("coming to terms with the past") I mean...

    Concerning South Tyrol, well, this was seen as a part of the "Austrian nation" more or less, just a lost part. Everything else would have been even more illogical.
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
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  2. #12
    Funding Member Leofric's Avatar
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    Re: Germany and Austria

    For what it's worth, I was noticing in a book I read last night that Pope Benedict XVI (who is probably the most widely-known and widely-respected German alive today) is very careful to distinguish between what he calls "Habsburg-controlled Germany" on the one hand and "Prussian-controlled Germany" on the other.

    It's nice that millions will now be reading these words of his and seeing that someone as mainstream as His Holiness — though he sees definite cultural differences between the two regions (he focuses mostly on the Catholic-Protestant divide, for obvious reasons) — does not regard them as distinct nations.

  3. #13
    Senior Member AlpinGermaneIBK's Avatar
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    AW: Germany and Austria

    As a Tyrolean I have to declare that South Tyrol is and was allways a part of Austria and of the Greater German Fatherland...allthough she was occupied by Italy after WW1 and sold by Göring and Hitler in the 1920/30ies...
    The Brenner-border is like a knife in every Tyrolians heart...also now as it isnt a real border anymore... and to know that Austrian politicians and most of the people care a s**t for this occupied German land...and to know that most of the young South-Tyrolians see themselves more as "Italians" than as Germans...
    But there where and still are people who wont give up their struggle for a reunion of the "2 Tyrols"...

    "Südtirol ist natürlicher Bestandteil Österreichs & somit Teil des Heiligen Deutschen Reiches!"

  4. #14
    Spirits on a cross in a stormy sea Slå ring om Norge's Avatar
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    Re: Germany and Austria

    Quote Nordgau

    grouping together the Scandinavians while dividing the Austrians from the other Germans is group-qualitatively inconsequent because Swedes, Norwegians, Danes are clearly different, even if closely related, peoples or nations, respectively, while German Austrianness is ethnically, culturally and historically nothing else but a regional sub-entity of Germandom. Neither in 1871 nor in 1918 nor in 1938 did a recognisable part of the people in German Austria have the idea that anything such as an "Austrian nation" would exist. The era of nationalism saw Norwegians dissolving the union with Sweden
    The two passages are highlighed by me.

    Quote Leofric, but collapse all of Scandianvia in one (and then throw in Iceland, the Faroes, and Greenland)?
    Also when it comes to cultures as visual arts, music, specially folkmusic, moral standards, food, holidays, primary industies, industry, lawwork, tax system, and also the waste geograpical area this group covers, about 3 times the size of Europe.

    Also the physical hinderings like mountains and oceans has secured that each of us has developed our own distinct national culture. Then comes the Sami culture, that is nothing like these again.

    And the most important, that any norwegian, swede, dane and icelender knows. And also anybody with the slightest insight in scandinavian concerns knows;

    We are separate from our beloved neighbours on these, and in numerous other
    concerns. And we are alike.

    The bottom line is, that this grouping is absurd, and cannot be taken serious.

  5. #15
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    AW: Germany and Austria

    For me it's not important what the rulers think. It's important HOW THE PEOPLE FEELS!!!

    Of what I heard, when I was talking to Austrians and even to "German Swiss" the major part of the Austrian people and a minor part of the Swiss people thinks that they are some kind of Germans. They know, just as we know as Prussians, Bavarians, Saxons and so on, that we are just these Prussians, Bavarians, Saxons or whatever, but part of a bigger and greater community of people and culture: Germans.

    What you may also see is, that many American Immigrants (

  6. #16
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    Re: Germany and Austria

    Quote Originally Posted by Leofric
    It's nice that millions will now be reading these words of his and seeing that someone as mainstream as His Holiness — though he sees definite cultural differences between the two regions (he focuses mostly on the Catholic-Protestant divide, for obvious reasons) — does not regard them as distinct nations.
    I wonder if any of our German Kameraden find a map of the church hierarchical divisions of Deutschland, with Archbishoprics? Do they cross modern borders, and have they changed with historical events?

    And, by the way, what is the Restreich? The rest of Deutschland minus Habsburg lands? What is the German term it seems to be translated from?

  7. #17
    Progressive Collectivist Agrippa's Avatar
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    AW: Germany and Austria

    The "first Archbishop of Germany" (Primas Germaniae) was and in theory still is for quite some time the archbishop of Salzburg, which belongs now to Austria by the way:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primas_germaniae

    Primas Germaniae is a historical title of honor for the most important Catholic bishop in Germany.

    Since at least 965 the Title was held by the Archbishop of Mainz as most important Archbishop and most noble Prince-Elector of the Holy Roman Empire until the See of Mainz was secularized in 1803. The Archbishop of Mainz was Primus inter pares of the german Prince-electors and chairman of the Council of Electors at the Reichstag. He was the Pope's legatus natus (subsitute) north of the Alps. Also he had the right to convoke and to preside the Electors' Council to elect a new Emperor.

    The honorary title Primus Germaniae also was held by the most noble ecclesiastical member of the Council of the Princes at the Reichstag: first the Archbishop of Magdeburg until the see of Magdeburg was secularized in 1648; thereafter the Archbishop of Salzburg. Since then the title is held by the Archbishops of Salzburg, despite the fact that Salzburg belongs to Austria now.
    and

    which once had made the Archbishop of Salzburg a "near-pope", were lost, but up to this day the Archbishop of Salzburg is considered a "born legate" (legatus natus), wears the purple robe of a legate and has the honorary title of "Primas Germaniae".
    http://www.aeiou.at/aeiou.encyclop.s...on?LANGUAGE=en
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
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  8. #18
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    AW: Re: Germany and Austria

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu
    And, by the way, what is the Restreich? The rest of Deutschland minus Habsburg lands?
    It's a pejorative term for the compressed 357,000 square kilometres of the current "Federal Republic of Germany".

    What is the German term it seems to be translated from?
    Das Restreich ...

  9. #19
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    Re: AW: Re: Germany and Austria

    Das Restreich!

    By the way, I can answer my earlier question now, about the Dioceses. [I put Diocese into my electronic Russian Dictionary, found the Russian, put that into my Russian German dictionary, and vot; Dioezese, and Bistum, into the Google and off we go!]

    It seems that the church boundaries are strictly in line with the states, even with the Lands and older Princedoms. There's no cross border stuff. Is this a modern thing, though? I'm sure I've seen maps of the Archbishopric of Salzburg, with lands in Bayern and elsewhere. Did the Church follow international border changes itself, like after the Congress of Vienna? Sachsen is certainly in its shrunken post-Prussian war shape.

  10. #20
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    AW: Germany and Austria

    The modern diocese borders were drawn new again and again with political changes and don't seem to transcend the state borders of the FRG amd Austria anywhere. Look at the maps here:

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C3%B6zese

    (Even Liechtenstein got its f... own archbishopric.)

    I know, however, that during the Cold War the Catholic Church always rejected of changing/dividing church provinces that transcended the borders between the FRG and the GDR.

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