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Thread: John 8 - Jesus and the Jews

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    Member Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Post John 8 - Jesus and the Jews

    John 8

    But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
    But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

    At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
    "No one, sir," she said.
    "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

    The Validity of Jesus' Testimony
    When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

    The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."
    Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or
    where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

    Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"
    "You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place
    where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

    Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come." This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, 'Where I go, you cannot come'?"
    But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."
    "Who are you?" they asked.

    "Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. "I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell
    the world."

    They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him." Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.

    The Children of Abraham
    To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
    They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

    Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father."

    "Abraham is our father," they answered.
    "If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would[4] do the things Abraham did. As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the things your own father does."

    "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

    The Children of the Devil
    Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

    The Claims of Jesus About Himself
    The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demonpossessed?"

    "I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

    At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
    Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I
    said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

    "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"

    "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

    At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

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    What's the point here? The brief condemnation of a few Jews...

    You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.
    doesn't change the fact that Jesus and his followers, excepting Luke, were Jews. This is old hat in Christian Identity circles. Problem is the other 99.8% of the "bible." It's not European in history or thought. No Vercingetorix, Leonidas or Arminius. No Heraclitus or Aristotle. The tribulations of the Jews, largely fabricated, pale against the triumphs and failures of our own. The Romans, the Greeks, the Cimbri, Cimmerians, Hittites or the sad tales of the Ampsivarii and Saxons. What is Ruth or Debra compared to Boudicca or Helen or Cleopatra (a Ptolemy) or Hypatia?

    Maybe this forum should be Indo-European Religion and Spirituality. I am hard-pressed to find good in Christianity for Europe. It's developed expressions are universalism, abolitionism and Marxism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionPeeler
    Maybe this forum should be Indo-European Religion and Spirituality. I am hard-pressed to find good in Christianity for Europe. It's developed expressions are universalism, abolitionism and Marxism.
    I take exception to that, Indo-European religions already have the Heathenry forum as well. Despite your personal feelings on it, Christianity has been part of European culture and history for almost 2000 years.
    It is a valid subject to be discussed. If you don't like it then that's your personal preference. I don't think the site should be limited. There are quite a few Christians on this site and I doubt they would be very happy with this idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionPeeler
    Maybe this forum should be Indo-European Religion and Spirituality.
    There is a specific forum dedicated to discussion of the pre-Christian ways and religions: Heathenry & The Old Ways

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    I take exception to that, Indo-European religions already have the Heathenry forum as well. Despite your personal feelings on it, Christianity has been part of European culture and history for almost 2000 years.
    It is a valid subject to be discussed. If you don't like it then that's your personal preference. I don't think the site should be limited. There are quite a few Christians on this site and I doubt they would be very happy with this idea.
    Who are all these Christians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    Christianity has been part of European culture and history for almost 2000 years.

    The age of something does not neccesarily reflect worth or validity.

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    The suggestion was indeed a bit much. But my original question stands. What point is being made?

    The long exposure of Europe to institutional Christianity had little effect. A Christian veneer was imposed that never seriously penetrated (few spoke Latin). Instead, Christian imagery was applied to the old European warrior ethos. Slaughtering Arabs or Indians in the name of an indistinct god was not a moral problem. It was not until the Reformation that Christian ethics began infiltrating and undermining European peasant and warrior modalities.

    In a sense, the American abolitionists are a signal example of the 'golden rule' applied. The 1864 founding of the Geneva Conventions and later 'human rights' accords are the culmination of universalizing the wrong moral set ... if by wrong the negative effect of prevailing grand morality is accepted.

    "Racially aware" Christians are now so rare that they can not be said to represent modern Christianity. They also face - and I understand the difficulty - the daunting need to reconcile, in themselves, sometimes conflicting racial/national and religious feelings.

    My opinion is...

    and it's not likely to be popular...

    is that racially aware Christians should accept that - as a whole - Christianity is very ill today. As such, within the context of national movements, their religion should stay at home. I would emphasize that, today, our people need Leonidas much more than Jesus.

    "Go Stranger and to Sparta tell, true to her law, here we fell."
    --- Quote, Monument to the 300 Spartans who delayed Xerxes' 100,000 Persians at the battle of Thermopylae Pass.

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