View Poll Results: Who was Jesus? (check all that apply)

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  • The son of God who died on the cross for the sins of mankind

    16 42.11%
  • One of several prophets or messengers of God

    3 7.89%
  • A Jewish revolutionary figure executed for his controversial ideas

    12 31.58%
  • I don't care who he was

    4 10.53%
  • A fairy tale, he never existed

    6 15.79%
  • Undecided

    3 7.89%
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Thread: Who Was Jesus?

  1. #51
    Omnia in bonum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminus View Post
    I mean the Church historian Eusebius of Caesarea.
    Okay, thank you. So you think Eusebius of Caesarea forged the testimony (Testimonium Flavianum?)? I think Josephus did know something about Christ, however.
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  2. #52
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    I heard an interesting theory.
    I heard from a source (not disclosing it) that the figure of Jesus is actually a collage of different personages over a vast period, blended into one.

    I think it will stick with that.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alice View Post
    Okay, thank you. So you think Eusebius of Caesarea forged the testimony (Testimonium Flavianum?)? I think Josephus did know something about Christ, however.
    I haven't studied that work or the pertaining debate that much, I merely dispute that the two references to Jesus are authentic and instead view both as an interpolation, particularly the latter.

    Concerning the second Josephus reference, I find this part to be peculiar:

    "And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared."

    When have the Christians ever been described as a "tribe"? It's not found in Lucian of Samosata's works, although he mentions "priests and scribes of the Christians".

    Etymology site reports:
    The Latin word translates Greek phyle "race or tribe of men, body of men united by ties of blood and descent, a clan" (see phylo-)."

    The word entails shared racial descent yet Galilee had a mixed population in the 1st century. Unless the early Christians were almost exclusively Jewish, this word does not really suit them.

    As for Josephus, how does a military leader suddenly take up history? Do we know if he was self-taught or if some Roman historian trained him? It's unwise to enlist people without ascertaining their background and qualifications (like how Guido von List recruited Herbert Reichstein as his publisher). I'm curious if he was even commissioned by his Roman benefactors. I consider Josephus' portrayal of Essenes (strongly implied to be Sun worshipers who worshiped the Sun alongside Jahwe) to be contradictory. Is not Jesus' dictum that no man can serve two masters invalidated?

    I'm of the view that Judaism deserves a wholesale condemnation, which should include increased scrutiny into the accounts given for the Jewish Essene sect (Porphyry and Pliny merely repeat what Josephus and Philo related, as have many occultists and theosophists). It should strike one as odd why the Essenes have been completely omitted from the gospels. The Sadducees and Pharisees are indicted, why not the Essenes? It's unlikely that the Essenes were politically insignificant, considering their proximity to the warlike Dead Sea Scrolls.

    The only concession I make to Judaism is that their kabbalists could possibly have some insight beyond mortal men.

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