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Thread: Historical and Esoteric History of the Black Sun

  1. #11
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Re: Runic interpretation of the Schwarze Sonne

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff View Post
    This Black Sun symbol would also be a symbol for a black hole which is a Schaubergian vortex. Both the top and bottom are vortices, each spiraling inwardly. So, if you looked down on it from the top, the Sig or Zil runes would be going in one direction but if you looked up from the bottom, the direction in which the runes indicated a spiral would be reversed since each half of the double vortex would be going in the opposite direction.
    Interesting take - similarly, given that Sig is the 11th rune, 11 inverted is ... 11. Zil is a 'wickedly' hidden inversion of Sig.
    However, the artist at Wewelsburg did decide to render the Sig Runes inverted [if they are Sig Runes] - that cannot be denied, and it is significant.

    I am surprised that even Edred Thorsson [or S. Flowers] in his book on Wiligut called them "12 radial 'Sig' runes" - even he missed that inversion.

    Likewise the version of the Wewelsburg symbol that is underneath Bismarck's monument also has inverted runes [and it is not "identical" as has already been said - I presume that Athonijsz had not actually seen that one].

    But let's not call them 'inverted', but by their proper name - i.e., Zil runes - as Wiligut has it.

    I can't find that usage of 'Zil rune' in any other Runemaster's work [not in von List, not in Kummer etc.,], and so presume it to be unique to Wiligut.

    It might devolve from a murk-rune reading [inverted in divination] of a Sig rune, but Wiligut's conception of the runes is cosmological, rather than divinatory.
    This was the only inversion that he incorporated into his actual rune-row [apart from the Eis rune, to be mentioned later] which is based on von List's Armanen runes.

    Reading the radial runes as Zils certainly makes more sense if we are viewing the Wewelsburg symbol as signifying the eclipse, or 'black sun'.

    The rune Zil is, like the Black Sun, hidden.
    In terms of its place in the rune row it is in between the 11th rune [Sig] and the 12th rune [Tyr] - or rather it lurks latently there, without its own number [11=11], an inverted doppelganger of the Sig rune on a parallel, esoteric, dark solar journey.

    It is then like the mysterious sun that Wiligut refers to as Santur;

    Santur-Saying
    Samur saga santur tvo
    sintyr peri fuir sprueh
    Wiligoti haga tharn
    Halga fuir santur tvo.

    [Wiligut, 'Halgarita-Saying #27]

    "Wiligut described an ancient sun called Santur ... a second sun that shone 23,000 years ago upon the Hyperboreans in the North Pole and promoted their spiritual development. Santur still orbits in the vicinity of our planet today as an extinct star, thus invisible, but as a Black Sun it still emits a powerful intelligence ..."
    [Goodrick-Clarke, 'Black Sun']

    It is this important Zil aspect [remembering that Wiligut desribes Zil as being 'demoniacal' and of 'ending the game of life in rest'] that Anthonijzs misses, although his numerical analyses certainly hold weight as the Wiligut/von List runic numerology are comensurate.

    Remember too that the NS swastika is likewise inverted.


    Another point: Anthonijsz makes too much of Kummer's work, trying to imply that his ideas were linked to Wewelsburg, as well as lauding him as "one of the greatest runemasters"(!).
    It seems this is being said only because Anthonijsz is relying on Kummer's booklet to make his interpretation. For, not only wasn't Kummer involved with Wewelsburg, but Kummer was "censured by Wiligut in the latter's capacity as Himmler's cousellor on magic & religious subjects for bringing the holy Aryan heritage into disrepute and ridicule".
    [Goodrick-Clarke, 'Occult Roots of NS']

    Hardly "one of the greatest" then!

    Looking at the other Black Sun symbol;



    I have this in Peter Moon's book 'Black Sun' of 1997, but wonder wherelse it occurs?
    Can anyone help?

    The inscription around the edge reads, from top, just right of centre;

    dem neuen zeitalter entgegen, sieg und heil grossdeutschland, im kampf fuer die welt, heil das neue reich thule.

    Does anyone know what script this is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrian View Post
    On the dead centre;
    "They must "turn" - around the misery of Kala,
    hold original- knowledge kalically..." - Willigut, p.67.
    The fact that there are two probably means the above in itself is also grounded by the same law.
    On p.86, it corresponds to the twin-sign Gemini.
    Yes [you are referring to the book called 'The Secret King', of course, translated and edited by Stephen, Edred, Flowers].

    On a runic level though, if we interpret the two identical runes in the very centre of the symbol using von List, then we get it wrong again.

    To von List, this was the 'Eh' rune, which he relates to marriage, law, horse etc.,

    In actual fact this is an inverted 'Need' rune - so we need to think about that also.

    However, Wiligut uses the traditional symbol for 'Eh';


    and instead uses the following symbol;



    for 'Eis' [ice].

    Instead of the usual 'Ice' rune which he saves for 'I' or 'Is'.

    [Usual form of the 'Ice' rune]

    Note how inverted symbols, whether the swastika, the Zil runes, or these unorthodox Ice runes are always used in key symbolism.

    So we can see the two unique Wiligut Ice Runes as symbolising to the two polar ice caps.

    "The former SS man Wilhelm Landig revived the ariosophical mythology of Thule, the polar homeland of the Aryans. He coined the idea of the Black Sun, a mystical source of energy capable of regenerating the Aryan race".
    [Goodrick-Clarke ib.,]

    Wiligut describes this rune as "germination in unity - the creative energy of Got -"
    Last edited by Moody; Friday, September 1st, 2006 at 05:07 PM. Reason: spelling
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  2. #12
    Senior Member einherjarNZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moody View Post

    Likewise, the two runes in the centre of this other Black Sun symbol cannot be interpreted according to their use by von List but rather according to their Wiligutian interpretation;



    But before I go on, does anyone have have any other information on this last symbol?
    Just an observation on the two "Eis" runes in the centre of this Schwarze Sonne.
    When Heinrich Himmler would initial official documents he initially used a symbol similar to the "Eis" rune except it had two vertical lines to form a letter "H" version of the "Eh' rune. He would use two of these as his initials for Heinrich Himmler.
    His formal signature was a collaboration of both. The "H" in Heinrich was an "Eis" rune, while the "H" in Himmler was the "H" variant of the "Eis" rune he had adopted.
    However I have noticed that in other official documents often he would drop the use of his H variant of the "Eis" rune altogether and just use two "Eis" runes.
    With Wiliguts and Himmlers close relationship, and with Wiliguts obvious influence over many aspects of SS mysticism, I can't help but wonder if these two "Eis" runes in the centre of this version of the Black Sun don't actually refer to Heinrich Himmler.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Herzbluth's Avatar
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    I wrote a little about that symbol…

    …in this thread:

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=115220

    The glyphs beeing used in that symbol are supposed to be a secret templar-script, but honestly speaking: it's pretentious. Allready that "secret" text is hilarious, a spawn from the wet dreams of a pseudo-occultist with a certain affinity to the SS. So the runes should replace the SS-runes, whicht can be read as both: the name of that organisation and "Schwarze Sonne". Again one estoric book copies the other without any research, and no auther really knows the sources. In this case it's the Tempelhofgesellschaft, a society in self-proclaimed tradition of the ONT. In this particular case I'm rather sure these described pubertal phantasies of power are from Norbert Jürgen-Ratthofer
    That symbol is obvisiously a modern construct, referring a to the La-Table-Ronde-symbol and mixing it with that Black-Sun-philosophy and that typically Marcionist believes of the THG. I must disappoint you: there are no secret roots to the historically ONT, and neither to the Thule-Gesellschaft or Vril-society. That organisation was founded in the 1980's, and also that nice symbol isn't really older. And the only connection to the SS are some single old men that joined this group, as for example Wilhelm Landig. And also Landig wasn't that "inaugurated" mastermind, as some assume in esoteric books – no, he wasn't member of these so popular "secret societies", wich some love so much to create an occult nazi-conspiracy: no Thule-Gesellschaft, no Vril, no Germanen-Orden… He was in the SS, not more and not less. But he didn't make out the philosophy either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by einherjarNZ View Post
    Just an observation on the two "Eis" runes in the centre of this Schwarze Sonne.
    When Heinrich Himmler would initial official documents he initially used a symbol similar to the "Eis" rune except it had two vertical lines to form a letter "H" version of the "Eh' rune. He would use two of these as his initials for Heinrich Himmler.
    His formal signature was a collaboration of both. The "H" in Heinrich was an "Eis" rune, while the "H" in Himmler was the "H" variant of the "Eis" rune he had adopted.
    However I have noticed that in other official documents often he would drop the use of his H variant of the "Eis" rune altogether and just use two "Eis" runes.
    With Wiliguts and Himmlers close relationship, and with Wiliguts obvious influence over many aspects of SS mysticism, I can't help but wonder if these two "Eis" runes in the centre of this version of the Black Sun don't actually refer to Heinrich Himmler.
    This image is from the Thule Society, long before the SS or even the Nazis, so it couldn't have any association with Heinrich Himmler

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    The is the article steve is referring to when he talks of the 24 runes being applied to the symbol.

    Black Sun on 24 Runes

    Quote Originally Posted by White Iceland View Post
    The article states:

    Interestingly, an identical rendering of Wewelsburg’s Schwartzsonne may be found as a wall painting at a WWII military bunker at Hamburg below a statue of Bismark. Its origins are unknown.

    -end quote-

    This is not particularly accurate as there are obvious differences.

    See this thread for more info:

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=664628&highlight=&sid=de f84b11fe9b04154ee4cb8dfef1871f
    Is this newspaper article available anywhere in German or English?
    Any better images of it?
    What newspaper did it appear in?





    Quote Originally Posted by Moody View Post


    But before I go on, does anyone have have any other information on this last symbol?
    Joseph P. Farrell goes on about it a lot, in his poorly researched books (he makes a comment in one book, unreferenced and then in the next book, to back up a new comment, references that original comment in his earlier book!). Anyway, his coment is based on Peter Moons book of the same name. However, Peter Moon basis his information on comment by Jan van Helsing as being that of a secret order within Thule.

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    Eala Freia Fresena
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff View Post
    Moody Lawless, please continue with your thoughts. Something has occurred to me. This BS symbol would also be a symbol for a black hole which is a Schaubergian vortex. Both the top and bottom are vortices, each spiraling inwardly. So, if you looked down on it from the top, the Sig or Zil runes would be going in one direction but if you looked up from the bottom, the direction in which the runes indicated a spiral would be reversed since each half of the double vortex would be going in the opposite direction.
    The black sun, as far as I can 'see' is what you would call a 'Black Hole'.

    In the different nine words, a connection between them would be a Black Hole if you look from the higher world to the lower world. All things disappear into them to be showered on the next lower world.

    The Black Hole consumes the light of a higher world and sucks it in (you could say stealing it) and the point (Black Hole) seeing from the lower world would be a sun, where all the light goes through.

    It is also where the Gods have to travel through to come to appearance on Earth. They are actually able to travel back which isn't possible to most of us.

    This view makes also sense of the reversed runes.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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