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Thread: Celtic Assimilation Into Germanic Culture

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    Senior Member Fionn's Avatar
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    Celtic Assimilation Into Germanic Culture

    I've been thinking about this for the past few days: would any here agree with me that the Celtic peoples of Europe, such as in Ireland and Scotland, have been assimilated into Germanic culture and share the same values, etc.? I just want to here your thoughts on this or if you agree with me somewhat.

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    Re: Celtic Assimilation into Germanic culture

    I think you'll find that Celtic countries hold Germanic values not out of 'assimilation' per se, but because both cultures were similar to begin with. Of course they are a little different, but in the broader scheme of things they always were very close to Germanic.

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    Re: Celtic Assimilation into Germanic culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Adalwulf
    I've been thinking about this for the past few days: would any here agree with me that the Celtic peoples of Europe, such as in Ireland and Scotland, have been assimilated into Germanic culture and share the same values, etc.? I just want to here your thoughts on this or if you agree with me somewhat.
    Celtic and Germanic values can mean different things to different people, but you should read Hilda Davidson's "Myths and symbols in pagan Europe: Early Scandinavian and Celtic religions", which documents the similarities between the mythology, folklore, and ritual of the Germanic and Celtic peoples.

    Unfortunately, I don't think your question has much current significance. "Trainspotting" is a more accurate portrayal of contemporary Scottish culture than "Braveheart". Sweden, the land of the Vikings, lets Muslims run their major cities, etc.

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    Senior Member Fionn's Avatar
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    Re: Celtic Assimilation into Germanic culture

    Quote Originally Posted by dehook
    Sweden, the land of the Vikings, lets Muslims run their major cities, etc.
    Yea, you're right about that. Our cultures our pretty much being shot to hell with all the influxes of minorities into our countries and multi-cult societies we live in. Isolationism would and should be our best friend in saving our great culture, history and genes.

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    Cúchulainn
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    Re: Celtic Assimilation into Germanic culture

    Yes, multiculturalism is an epidemic everywhere, but it's especially bad in big cities. I see a lot of confused Celts/Germanics here in Brisbane city, in Australia, but I also know a lot of nationalists who are trying to preserve their racial heritage. And there are signs that not everyone is happy about modernity. Recently in Sydney there was the Cronulla 'race war'. Thousands of Australians rose up to reclaim a piece of their dignity, and they put fear into the enemy. If there were well organised nationalist-populist parties in every Western state, we could rise up in greater measure, perhaps even restore our race to its rightful position.

    As for Celts and Germanics - the worst conflict between these people, ironically, is in the British Isles. In all the Western 'settlments' (USA, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) the Celts and Germanics live side-by-side, peacefully, barely even aware of any differences between each other. I for one am Celtic, not Germanic, and I know that I have inherited Celtic qualities from my mother, who inherited them from her mother and father, and so on. It's not a matter of me being assimilated by Germanic culture because I live in a nominally Anglo-Saxon country. Australian culture (or what's left of it) is a perfect, seamless synthesis of English, Scottish and Irish.

    The differences between our races are immaterial. We are better united.

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    Re: Celtic Assimilation into Germanic culture

    I'm not quite sure that Celtic values and Germanic values are all that similar. Have a look at these UK and French election maps (from the BBC):
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    It looks to me like Ulster, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, and Brittany are foci of electorates that are somewhat out of step with their Germanic countrymen. In England, Conservative and Labour held sway almost universally, but Scotland is a Lib Dem stronghold, and Cornwall and Wales both showed strong Lib Dem support as well. Ulster was entirely consumed by the Unionist/non-Unionist debate of course, and Wales and Scotland both had some nationalist party representation. But aside from South Wales and Lowland Scotland, most of the Celtic regions stayed away from Labour and the Tories.

    And in France, it looks to me like support for Le Pen was commonest in the more Germanic and Mediterranean portions of the country, while the more Gaulish and Brythonic portions went for Chirac. The lines here aren't nearly so clear as they are in the UK election, but it could indicate something about a difference between Celtic and Germanic values.

    Now it would be very foolish to say that the Celts and Germanics are diametrically opposed with as little evidence as a few election maps. Election results, though they do reflect core values of various groups to some extent, involve a great deal of variables that extend far beyond cultural mores. We could never conclude based on these three maps that the Celts and the Germanics are at odds with one another. I do think, though, that these three maps show that the debate over whether Celts and Germanics are essentially the same people is still open, and further investigation could reveal further differences. I don't think we should be too swift to ignore such potential markers of persistent differences between Celtic and Germanic values.

    Also, many Celts I have met or whose words I have read have affirmed their conviction that they viewed the world differently from the Germanic neighbors (both in France and in the UK) because they were Celtic. That feeling of theirs should mean something.

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  10. #7
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    Re: Celtic Assimilation into Germanic culture

    All of that is probably true. I do not deny that for thousands of years the Celts and Germanics have been distinctly separate peoples, albeit with a high degree of similarity between them. Celts, supposedly the disenfranchised people of Europe (with Germanics being the dominant group), will usually support a party which they perceive will grant them more equality, etc.

    But that doesn't change the fact that Europe will never be whole and strong until Celts and Germanics put aside their petty feuds and rally under one Pan-European banner. The Gauls have a powerful claim to France, as do the Germanics. The Scots and Welsh have a very old claim to Britain, but the Anglo-Saxons are obviously entitled to England. Territorial contention is pointless. Our efforts should not be wasted against each other, but spent on building a unified Europe with roots deep in the Blood and the Land. Across much of the Western world you will find lands which both Celts and Germanics love and will defend to their death. We love the same lands, the same freedoms, the same intertwined history. No matter how Celts or Germanics generally vote today, our purpose should be to unite these kindred nations, now so intermixed that in many places it is difficult to make ethnic distinctions.

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    Re: Celtic Assimilation into Germanic culture

    If you read Coon carefully, he says that both the Nordic physical type, Germanic culture, and Odin himself originated in the Hallstatt Iron Age culture of Austria, spread north, east and then west to Northern Germany, entered Sweden via Jutland, multiplied, and emerged in Roman times as the Germans. The interesting thing is that Hallstatt Iron Age Culture was what we would call Keltic. What this really means is the seperation between Keltic and Germanic cultures is temporal. I think we can all agree that Germanic culture is rather simple in comparison to Celtic and newer, better at agriculture/hearding, and better organized for war. This has caused a replacement of Celtic culture by Germanic culture throughout western and northern Europe. This happened not only in England but in Germany, Holland, Poland (before the Slavs), France, Switzerland, Austria, and the replacement of the Celts of eastern Europe stretching to Turkey in early Roman times. This replacement is still going on in parts of Britain and Ireland.

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  13. #9
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    Re: Celtic Assimilation into Germanic culture

    That's very true. The Celtic civilisation has not fared well in competition with the Germanics for some time. I don't think this is necessarily a reflection of the worth of Celtic culture compared to Germanic culture. It is my opinion that ever since the Germanics became literate, as opposed to the non-literate, oral Celts, there has been a predominance of Germanic culture. Writing facilitates the supremacy, permanency and expansion of the Germanic tongues. The Celtic languages are hosts of Celtic culture, but without a highly literate tradition they have declined severely. Of course with the pervasive spread of English as a first-language in Celtic lands, it is of no surprise that Celts have been steadily assimilated to the Germanic way of thinking and doing.

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    It's easy to compare Scotland with Bavaria, Ireland with Austria. These are all Celto-Germanic areas with a problematic attachment or prevaricating indecisiveness regarding Romish religion. Then again, even if West Germanic Bavaria and Austria no longer speak Celtic but have had a Romance history, Scotland and Ireland have a North Germanic history in addition to West Germanic. It's rich that those folks who were integrated with Mediterranean countries might seek to alienate from Germanic association, those who've been intimate with Nordic countries. Unlike "Norse-Gael", epitomised by the Isle of Mann, "Italo-Celtic" is a joke. The closest approximation to fit the bill would be Brittany, but the Bretons are associated primarily with Normans (and vice versa), who have an outsider relationship with Romance France, being that each have just as much connection with England and Wales (as above, they are just as associated with each other) both before the Conquest and after the 100 Years' War.

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