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Thread: Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids

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    Senior Member Phlegethon's Avatar
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    Post Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids

    Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids


    Steve Bradshaw
    Thursday October 9, 2003
    The Guardian


    The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk. The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV virus.

    A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms, despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue.

    The church's claims are revealed in a BBC1 Panorama programme, Sex and the Holy City, to be broadcast on Sunday. The president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, told the programme: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom.

    "These margins of uncertainty... should represent an obligation on the part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a danger."

    The WHO has condemned the Vatican's views, saying: "These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million."

    The organisation says "consistent and correct" condom use reduces the risk of HIV infection by 90%. There may be breakage or slippage of condoms - but not, the WHO says, holes through which the virus can pass .

    Scientific research by a group including the US National Institutes of Health and the WHO found "intact condoms... are essentially impermeable to particles the size of STD pathogens including the smallest sexually transmitted virus... condoms provide a highly effective barrier to transmission of particles of similar size to those of the smallest STD viruses".

    The Vatican's Cardinal Trujillo said: "They are wrong about that... this is an easily recognisable fact."

    The church opposes any kind of contraception because it claims it breaks the link between sex and procreation - a position Pope John Paul II has fought to defend.

    In Kenya - where an estimated 20% of people have the HIV virus - the church condemns condoms for promoting promiscuity and repeats the claim about permeability. The archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki, said: "Aids... has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms."

    Sex and the Holy City includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through".

    In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids."

    Panorama found the claims about permeable condoms repeated by Catholics as far apart as Asia and Latin America.

    · Steve Bradshaw is a correspondent with Panorama. Sex and the Holy City will be broadcast on BBC1 at 10.15pm on Sunday.
    And all my youth passed by sad-hearted,
    the joy of Spring was never mine;
    Autumn blows through me dread of parting,
    and my heart dreams and longs to die.

    - Nikolaus Lenau (1802-1850)

    Real misanthropes are not found in solitude, but in the world; since it is experience of life, and not philosophy, which produces real hatred of mankind.

    - Giacomo Leopardi (1798-1837)

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    Senior Member Ominous Lord Spoonblade's Avatar
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    I don't understand what they are thinking in the Vatican. If it is condoms that promote promiscuity, why is there such a high incidence of HIV in countries where they are not readily available? Hmm! Africa also has a problem with more little mouths than is possible to feed(Malthus is in his grave with a smirk across his face going: "I told you so!" ), so other forms of contraception can't be encouraging this promiscuity.

    This is the same kind of thought that set back the discovery that we have a heliocentric universe.
    I envision a world where people dawning long white robes and elaborate headdresses run rampant down the streets, waving their arms in the air while screaming "we've gone mad, we've gone mad", like defrocked monks breaking the silence of ages past.

    Spoonblade: Sharper than a knife and twice as deadly.

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    Senior Member Phlegethon's Avatar
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    What the Vatican is opposed to is this Condom Culture that gives a false impression of safety. If everyone behaved according to Catholic moral standards and within Catholic family parameters there simply would be no AIDS.

    Apart from that I am of the opinion that the Vatican's doctrine is correct. A friend of mine who is a biologist told me exactly the same thing. Of course this truth is highly unwelcome because it would lead to a mass panic if that knowledge became commonplace.
    And all my youth passed by sad-hearted,
    the joy of Spring was never mine;
    Autumn blows through me dread of parting,
    and my heart dreams and longs to die.

    - Nikolaus Lenau (1802-1850)

    Real misanthropes are not found in solitude, but in the world; since it is experience of life, and not philosophy, which produces real hatred of mankind.

    - Giacomo Leopardi (1798-1837)

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    Senior Member Ominous Lord Spoonblade's Avatar
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    But the bottomline is that condoms are more effective in preventing HIV than they are in spreading it (even if the availability of condoms makes people have more sexual encounters with various partners). People should not take it for granted and assume they are safe because they use a rubber, but what can you do about that? Take away condoms? Seriously! Essentially the only sexual behaviour one can control is their own.
    I envision a world where people dawning long white robes and elaborate headdresses run rampant down the streets, waving their arms in the air while screaming "we've gone mad, we've gone mad", like defrocked monks breaking the silence of ages past.

    Spoonblade: Sharper than a knife and twice as deadly.

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanessa
    But the bottomline is that condoms are more effective in preventing HIV than they are in spreading it (even if the availability of condoms makes people have more sexual encounters with various partners). People should not take it for granted and assume they are safe because they use a rubber, but what can you do about that? Take away condoms? Seriously! Essentially the only sexual behaviour one can control is their own.

    That's why chastity belts were created. For those women who can't control themselves.
    .

    IHR Revisionist Conference, April 24, 2004, internet broadcast:

    http://www.internationalrevisionistconference.c om/

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Just wanted to clarify, I'm not an advocat of chastity belts.
    .

    IHR Revisionist Conference, April 24, 2004, internet broadcast:

    http://www.internationalrevisionistconference.c om/

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocreator
    That's why chastity belts were created. For those women who can't control themselves.
    BTW, this was not a slight remark towards Vanessa, who I'm sure is in control of her sexuality. Now if she could only take control of her bad smoking habit.
    .

    IHR Revisionist Conference, April 24, 2004, internet broadcast:

    http://www.internationalrevisionistconference.c om/

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    Senior Member Phlegethon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanessa
    But the bottomline is that condoms are more effective in preventing HIV than they are in spreading it (even if the availability of condoms makes people have more sexual encounters with various partners).
    Which remains to be proven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanessa
    People should not take it for granted and assume they are safe because they use a rubber, but what can you do about that? Take away condoms? Seriously! Essentially the only sexual behaviour one can control is their own.
    And if everybody did that everything would be fine. But as hardly anyone has sufficient self-control anymore things are going downhill at an accelerating pace.
    And all my youth passed by sad-hearted,
    the joy of Spring was never mine;
    Autumn blows through me dread of parting,
    and my heart dreams and longs to die.

    - Nikolaus Lenau (1802-1850)

    Real misanthropes are not found in solitude, but in the world; since it is experience of life, and not philosophy, which produces real hatred of mankind.

    - Giacomo Leopardi (1798-1837)

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    Senior Member Phlegethon's Avatar
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    Chastity belts are a legend, actually. A few of them were manufactured, even fewer were used, and probably even fewer actually worked. Hygienically promiscuity is probably much healthier and safer than wearing a chastity belt.
    And all my youth passed by sad-hearted,
    the joy of Spring was never mine;
    Autumn blows through me dread of parting,
    and my heart dreams and longs to die.

    - Nikolaus Lenau (1802-1850)

    Real misanthropes are not found in solitude, but in the world; since it is experience of life, and not philosophy, which produces real hatred of mankind.

    - Giacomo Leopardi (1798-1837)

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    On reconsideration, women should have to wear a chastity belt and I'll hold the keys.
    .

    IHR Revisionist Conference, April 24, 2004, internet broadcast:

    http://www.internationalrevisionistconference.c om/

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