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Thread: Stages of Freedom [Hegel, Lesson on the Philosophy of History ]

  1. #11
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    I just ask you to become one with nature and its laws.
    Really you miss the point.
    Perhaps. Or maybe I was a little obscure. Your "Be one" and "explore self" has a ring of advaita vedanta or perhaps the even less mystical scientific pantheism. My point was not to say that there is or is not God, but that the question is unanswerable.

    This is the point in thought where things branch out into many possiblilities. The belief in any one is surely a form of faith. Even Nietzsche is guilty of this with his "Greatest Weight" - the belief that the universe is mechanical and eternally recurring (and therefore denies free will and any freedom).

    Like Rahul, I prefer to jump into the mix of ideas that were spawned in Upanishads, Greek and modern philosophers. I consider these extentions of the Aryan conceptualization of God - whether that God is an anthropocentric guy with a beard or an abstract concept of universal order (Rta, Kosmos - orig. meaning).

  2. #12
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    "The Orientals only knew that a single man was free -
    The worlds of Greece and Rome knew that some were free -
    But we know that all men are free, that man is free as man ...
    Universal history goes from East to West, for Europe is truly the end of History, of which Asia is the beginning. For universal history, there is an East which exists in itself, the East for itself being something quite relative; for although the Earth is a sphere, History does not describe a circle around it ..."
    [Hegel]

    I feel that Hegel is wrong here - this process IS a circle, and NOT an eternal linear progess towards complete 'freedom'.
    As soon as the 'total freedom' of anarchy is reached, where all men are seen as 'free individuals', then does the pendulum swing back again.

    Freedom is NOT a limitless resource, and it DEMANDS that others be unfree for it to exist.

    Yes, it may be 'oriental' to say that only ONE is free - this is the Monarch, the Absolute Ruler, the Single Dictator, the Autocrat. He can say to his 'people', " I wish that you all had one neck so that I could decapitate you all at once".
    The only restriction on the Autocrat is the limit of his own Will.
    This man is NECESSARY.

    And so the Greeks knew that a Few must be 'free' - this is Aristocracy, Oligarchy etc., This Elite need to ride their culture to the heights of Olympus as the Greeks did on the backs of Slaves.
    It was the existence of the Slave who made the Greek Elite aware of the Superhumanity. In that sense of supreme confidence did those Hellenes create the Highest Forms in Arts and in Philosophy.
    This Few are NECESSARY.

    And the West does say that "all men are equal"; and by that invents the Mass Culture we see today ...
    Alas, this too is NECESSARY.

    But the wheel is always turning - back to the Elite, or back to the Ruler next stop?
    Last edited by Moody; Wednesday, November 5th, 2003 at 08:08 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    But the wheel is always turning - back to the Elite, or back to the Ruler next stop?
    A cycle of consciousness, or a cycle of actuality, Moody?
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aloysha
    A cycle of consciousness, or a cycle of actuality, Moody?
    I can never sever the 'consciousness' from the 'body'.
    If you regard the Body as 'actuality', then so must consciousness be so.
    What is now fact was once only imagined.
    Ah, Time's dissemblement!
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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