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Thread: Holy places of our Folk

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    Question Holy places of our Folk

    It might be interesting if we could all put our heads together on this thread and come up with a good list of sites of spiritual significance to our Germanic ancestors, across all of our present and former terrain. I wouldn't mind visiting such places, and I bet others here would appreciate something of an itinerary to bear in mind.

    Off the top of my head, I can't think of very many, unfortunately. My interests have in the pasts directed me more towards our Megalithic past, perhaps unavoidable a tendency for a son of Albion with our many Henges, Barrows and other prehistoric heritage.

    Uppsala in Sweden comes to mind, naturally. Goodmanham in Yorkshire [the site of the shrines toppled by the renegade priest Coifi]. In Germany I dimly remember the Brocken, and the Externstein [spelling?], so as you can see - I need your help!

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    Re: Holy places of our Folk

    Preserving European natural wildlife/woodlands would be first in my mind (deforestation in another part of the world would be worth the cost; stricter environmental policies). Our blood, culture, and land are the only things connecting our folk and us to our forebears.
    Last edited by Ahren_; Tuesday, January 17th, 2006 at 09:08 PM.

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    Re: Holy places of our Folk

    Well for starters either the cities of Bramsche or Detmold, both canidates for the site of the battle of Teutoburg Forest. Archeological evidence points to Bramsche but Detmold has the statue of Hermann and was until recently considered the place of the battle.

    Other spots could be the island of Heligoland, the Frisian king Radbods bastion. And the city of Dokkum were St. Boniface was killed to represent a stand against the foreign christian faith.

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    Re: Holy places of our Folk

    Quote Originally Posted by ubbe
    Other spots could be the island of Heligoland, the Frisian king Radbods bastion.
    I don't know if Redbad had a bastion there, he did have one in the region of the Dutch town of Medemblik.
    But Helgoland or Ameland (one of the two, historians are divided) was the Island of the Germanic god Fosite (Forsete/Foste).

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswy
    a good list of sites of spiritual significance to our Germanic ancestors, across all of our present and former terrain.
    The terps of course (walk on a hill made of the buildings, bones, garbage and shit of people and livestock )
    Well actually its quite cool to see the lower lands surrounding it, especially when you realize that the old Germanics living on those places had almost the same view.
    Although the lands surrounding terps weren't as cultivated in those times.

    Terps in the old days


    Terp in modern times
    Last edited by The Black Prince; Friday, February 3rd, 2006 at 10:49 PM. Reason: added picture

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    Re: Holy places of our Folk

    Montségur, mountain - Région Midi-Pyrénées, France.

    The holiest of holiest, sacred to the ancients.

    It's here, and in the area surrounding the fortress, that Otto Rahn thought he could find the grail, the most important (Celto-)Germanic mythical object.

    Could it be that Montségur is the legendary castle of Monsalvat, was it that what Wolfram Von Eschenbach was saying, with his "Parzival"?




    Satan allegedly lost a diamond of his crown, the diamond fell on earth, right on this mountain spot - while he was waging war against heaven.

    Montségur was also the scene of a medieval massacre, famous now, thanks to Dan Brown. The habitants of the fortress, itself being the spiritual heart of the cathars, a religious sect - were branded heretics by the pope.

    Consequently a crusade was launched... after resisting for ten months (just look at the size and nature of the mountain, ... it's a formidable objective to any opposing force) the defenders finally grew desperate and when it finally fell - due to negotiations, the cathars could save their life if they gave up their faith.

    Before this major Cathar bulwark gave in to the crusader demands, and surrendered, some highly ranked priests, called parfaits, escaped from the kesselslacht...




    They escaped with what today is known as "the Cathar treasure"... It may well be a real treasure, a gold treasure, or ... is it something else: Gnostic knowledge, secret documents on early christianity, the head of Christ, the stone of wisedom, ... the grail, and is the grail Satan's diamond?

    In any event: the Cathars who didn't renounce their faith - stepped willingly and with a calm soul into the flames.

    It must have been quite a shock to Rome: heretics acting like saints, how conflicting with their own conduct of the times.


    "Als Catars, als martirs del pur amor crestian - 16 mars 1244"

    I've been to the place, and it's ... spectacular, refreshing, you'll be stunned if you plan a trip at southern France and stop by.

    The full weight of history, and of murder, rests on every leave, tree, and brick. The whole area attacks your senses, but in a benevolent way, like being in a fairytale. If you're looking for a mystical experience: this place will bring about just that.

    Not for heart patients, btw: the fortress and other relics lie on a rock, which lies on a mountain, 1.215 m high. And so you have a lot of steep climbing ahead. But you will have visited a true temple of our spiritual heritage.




    "Also it is thought that the castle may have been a place were sun worship took place. This because the keep and its windows are aligned in such a way that during the summer solstice the first rays of sunlight shine in through the windows on one side, through the keep and out of the windows on the other side." - source


    Last edited by Parsifal; Monday, March 13th, 2006 at 05:48 AM.
    “Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no-one is too poor to buy.” - C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

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    Re: Holy places of our Folk

    POITIERS




    Poitiers, France - where the Clain and Boivre river meet. It's named after the Celt Picti tribe, and is the capital of the Vienne département, a city with a rich history.

    This spot is important to us because of a monumental battle dating back to 732, when the muslim invader penetrated the kingdom of the Franks, and Charles Martel and Eudes of Aquitaine meet Abd. er-Rahman and his men at Moussais (north of Poitiers). That battle is sacred to us, because the fate of good old Europe hung in the balance when christian and muslim forces met.

    That way, I find the battlefield of spiritual interest to anyone slightly Germanic.


    This is the Arab version of facts.

    And this is ours:

    Modern scholars tend to see the clash of less significance, due to the fact that there's not much physical evidence for a battle grand style, thus contradicting medieval sources. But was the opposing force just a raiding party? Whatever, this place is the high water mark of the invader's succes, muslim troops never got beyond Poitiers. That's a fact.

    It (the battle, also known as the battle of Tours) has been described in epic terms. Guizot (I:154) observes "It is quite certain that neither Franks nor Arabs, neither Charles nor Abd. er-Rahman themselves, took any account ... of the importance of the struggle in which they were on the point of engaging; it was a struggle between East and West, South and North, Asia and Europe, the Gospel and the Koran; and we now say, on the general consideration off events, people and ages, that the civilization of the world depended upon it." Kitchen (106) observes that here "the young civilizations of Europe and Asia stood face to face, there the horsemen of the East met the footmen of the West." Even those who saw the battle in less grandiose terms recognized its importance. Fouracre (in McKitterick CMH 88) notes; "Though not quite of the importance often still accorded to it, this Frankish victory did force the Arabs to retreat southwards ..." Source




    Background (Source)


    By about 711 Muslim Arabs had spread across North Africa and invaded and conquered Spain. By about 719-20 they had crossed the Pyrenees and entered southern Gaul. They took and sacked Narbonne. They extended their reach to the banks of the Garonne (near Bordeaux) and laid siege to Toulouse. At the time Aquitaine was ruled by Eudes. The duke gathered his forces and went to confront the invaders at Toulouse. Both sides sought to rally their troops by calling on their God. From Guizot (I:149): "'Have ye no fear of this multitude' said El-Sameh (leader of the Arab forces) to his warriors, 'If God be with us who shall stand against us?'" and "Eudes had taken equally great pains to kindle the pious courage of the Aquitanians; he spread among his troops a rumor that he had but lately received as a present from Pope Gregory II three sponges that had served to wipe down the table at which the sovereign pontiffs were accustomed to celebrate the communion; he had them cut into little strips which he distributed to all those combatants who wished for them and thereupon gave the word to sound the charge."

    Eudes prevailed and destroyed the Arab army. The Aquitanians claimed they killed over 375,000 invaders but more realistic estimates are probably 40,000 - 45,000 Arab casualties. This was a serious defeat and later Arab chroniclers continued to make reference to it and agree that there were no Arab survivors. This was just the opening round of a series of incursions into southern Europe that continued into the 10th C. There was another invasion in 725 which seized Carcassone, crossed to the east side of the Rhone and generally conquered Septimania. Eudes again confronted the Muslim army and defeated it in Provence. While he was victorious on the field, he was unable to dislodge the Arabs from Septimania. At the same time, Eudes had to contend with Charles, duke of the Franks, who cast covetous eyes on Aquitanian possessions south of the Loire.

    In 731-32 Abd. er-Rahman organized an army and again crossed from Spain into Gaul. Guizot suggests that the Muslim force was 65,000 - 70,000 troops. Eudes once again took to the field but was not successful this time around. He was forced to withdraw across the Garonne and Abd. er-Rahman was able to cross the river and challenge Eudes. Eudes was defeated and Bordeaux fell to the invaders.

    Eudes turned to Charles, duke of the Franks, and enlisted his aid. His argument was that once Aquitaine was conquered, the Arab army would move into Frankish territory. Charles accepted Eudes' pledge of loyalty and they joined forces. By this time the Arabs were attacking throughout Gaul. They had even crossed the Loire and gone into Burgundy where they got as far as Autun and Sens. Charles ordered a general mobilization of all his forces, including troops from north and east of the Rhine. Meanwhile, Abd er-Rahman also started regathering his now dispersed forces with the idea of moving to Tours, which he understood the be a very rich prize.

    He came to Poitiers but found the city closed to him and bypassed it, proceeding to the walls of Tours. Before the attack was clearly launched, he learned that Charles was marching towards him with a substantial force. He withdrew to the north of Poitiers. By this time his army was moving more slowly, since it was weighted down with the plunder of all their campaigning in Gaul. Rather than abandon the baggage train, the Arabs sought to protect it. The following map shows the local geography. He established his base between the Vienne and the Chain (two rivers marked in blue). This is south of Chatellerault and north of Poitiers (just off the bottom of the map). The Franks arrived in October 732 and established themselves north of the Arabs, but still bounded by the Vienne and the Chain. This was a precarious position, in that were they not successful on the battlefield they would not have clear lines of retreat.




    Battle of Moussais (Poitiers II) October 17 (or 25th), 732 (Source)

    The two armies skirmished for about a week but did not directly engage. Finally, on the first day of Ramadan (according to the battlefield open museum) Abd. er-Rahman ordered a general attack. He had positioned himself on a rise above the plain at Moussais. This first picture is from the position the Arabs held, looking down on the Frankish force on the plain below. While they had the advantage of the high ground, they attacked downhill and then across the level plain rather than the Franks attacking the high ground.




    The Frankish mobilization, in response to a universal 'banus,' was complete and included Franks from Neustria, Germans from Austrasia, Alamans, Burgundians, Saxons, Frisians, Bavarians and Gallo Romans from Aquitaine. Most of these were foot soldiers. Eudes of Aquitaine, called 'The Roman,' was 72 at this time. Charles was 43. The Franks aligned themselves in triangular phalanxes. The next image is an artist's rendition, taken from material at the battlefield, of a Frankish phalanx. The attack of the Arab mounted bowmen was unable to break the Frankish lines. While this picture shows the Franks with spears, other sources indicate they relied on long handled battle axes. Details of the battle are sketchy but two instances stand out. One is that a Frankish force penetrated to the Arab camp, either to plunder the baggage train or attack from the rear, and this caused confusion in the Arab ranks. The other is that when he saw that the battle was not going well, Abd. er-Rahman himself entered the fray and was killed. The second picture shows an artist's rendition of a more general melee.




    From the plain, the Franks would look up to the Arab position on their left (first picture). Once they descended from the ridge, the Arab force would have been looking north, towards the Franks and Chatellerault (second picture). The Franks would have had this view to their back.






    The fighting went on most of the day. Casualty estimates are unreliable. Kitchen cites chronicler's as saying that 300,000 Arabs died, but if it anything like the earlier battles, I suspect casualities were much less, though still significant. That evening the two armies withdrew to their respective camps. At dawn the next day, the Franks arranged themselves for battle but discovered that the Arabs had decamped in the night, abandoning all their plunder from previous raids. This Frankish victory occurred 100 years after the death of Mohammed and essentially ended, for a time, the serious threat of a broad Arab invasion into Europe through Spain. The Arabs withdrew to Narbonne and Septimania, which they continued to hold. This victory earned Charles the title Charles Martel ( The Hammer).

    Eudes returned to Aquitaine and ruled as a vassal of Charles. Campaigns against the Arabs continued in the following years (733 - Burgundy; 735 - Aquitaine, 739 - Provence), as they would in the ensuing centuries.

    Today Moussais la Battaille is very much agricultural and it is possible to get a sense of the terrain and alignment of forces. It is a quiet place to visit (...) and after harvest is is possible to walk the field where these armies clashed almost 1300 years ago.

    “Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no-one is too poor to buy.” - C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

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    Re: Holy places of our Folk

    Returning to Oswy's Megalithic sites, they are all over Europe. Some time in the past we had a thread about the Roekkr, the pre-Vanir and Asir gods. These Roekkr gods were described as god of darkness. Evidently Megalithic religion involved watching the night sky, the moon, and stars. Might the Roekkr have been the original Megalithic religion which was absorbed first by the Vanir and then the Asir gods and religions? If there is a relationship, this would make all Megalithic sites important for Germanic culture.

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    Re: Holy places of our Folk

    Quote Originally Posted by ubbe
    And the city of Dokkum were St. Boniface was killed to represent a stand against the foreign christian faith.
    Having the place of a murder of a prominent Englishman a Holy Site for Our Folk!
    I went to his church recently, too - a fine Old English monument [the lower parts, at least, and the apse and round side tower.
    Brixworth Church, Nothamptonshire;




    Back to older stuff;
    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu
    the Externstein [spelling?]
    Wikipedia;
    The Externsteine (51°52′8″N, 8°55′3″E) are a distinctive rock formation located in the Teutoburger Wald region of northwestern Germany, not far from the city of Detmold at Horn-Bad Meinberg. The formation consists of several tall, narrow columns of rock which rise abruptly from the surrounding wooded hills. The name probably means "stones of the Egge".
    It has been suggested Externsteine site was a center of religious or cultic activity for the Teutonic peoples and their predecessors, prior to the arrival of Christianity in that part of Europe. This notion can be traced back to Hermann Hamelmann (1564). In 1093 the land surrounding the stones was bought by the Abdinghof monastery of Paderborn; and from that time traces of human activity, including extensive rock carvings with Christian images carved on the Externsteine themselves, can be made out by archaeologists. In contrast to the widespread assumption of an early Germanic cult site, several excavations did not produce any archaeological findings earlier than the 11th century, aside some paleolithic and mesolithic stone tools from before about 10,000 BC.

    the Externsteine relief of the Descent from the Cross. The bent tree below the cross has been suggested to represent the Irminsul, humiliated by the triumph of Christianity


    The last Heathen inhabitants of the region were Saxons until their defeat and conversion by Charlemagne. Charlemagne is reported to have destroyed the Saxon Irminsul in 772; and Wilhelm Teudt in the 1920s suggested that the location of the Irminsul had been at the Externsteine. In 1933 Teudt joined the NSDAP and proposed to turn the Externsteine into a "sacred grove" for the commemoration of the ancestors.
    Heinrich Himmler was open to the idea and in 1933 initiated and then presided over the "Externstein Foundation". Interest in the location was furthered by the Nazi Ahnenerbe division within the SS, who studied the stones for their value to Germanic folklore and history.
    Some Neo-Pagans continue to believe that the Irminsul was located at the Externsteine and identify a bent tree depicted beneath the cross in a 12th century Christian carving with it. The site has also been of interest to various German nationalist movements over the years, and continues to be a frequently-visited point of interest.


    THe bent tree that someone is standing on to reach Yeshuah is thought to be the Irminsul, or World Tree, of Our Mythology, humiliated in Christian iconography.
    More pics from http://www.roland-harder.de/externst...ernsteine.html

    And http://www.externstein.de/index.htm



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    Re: Holy places of our Folk

    Here is a piece I wrote for the forums over at Miercinga Ţéod. In addition to Taplow, I think Sutton Hoo, and Yeavering would also be good holy sites.

    Taplow

    Taplow is in Buckinghamshire, and a part of what was ancient Mercia. Its name comes from Anglo-Saxon Tćppa-hlaw "Tćppa's mound." The mound is on grounds of Taplow Court Estate. It dates to about 620 CE, the period when Ceorl was king of Mercia, and Penda's fortunes as a warlord were only starting to rise. . In 1883 James Rutland, a local historian decided to dig into the mound. What he found was the second richest Anglo-Saxon find in history. Only Sutton Hoo outshines Taplow.The grave goods included:

    - a gold buckle, four inches long and four ounces in weight
    - a pair of gilt bronze clasps
    - remains of six drinking horns with gilt silver mounts and terminals
    - four glass ‘claw’ beakers
    - bone gaming pieces
    - a gold fringe, originally attached to a garment
    - an iron sword, three spear heads, two shield bosses and a knife
    - a bronze Coptic bowl
    - a large bronze-lined cauldron
    - two wooden buckets with decorated bronze rim bands
    - two crescent-shaped bronze ornaments, thought to be part of a harp.
    (list taken from http://www.indigogroup.co.uk/edge/Taplow.htm)

    Who was Tćppa?

    No one is certain who Tćppa was. Most theorize he was a chieftain of some sort. He is mentioned in no surviving records so he was not apparently a king. His burial though makes it apparent he was of high status. And his name Tćppa alliterates with that of Tibba, a Christian saint said to be a related to Kyneburga, daughter of Penda, and therefore a member of the Mercian royal family. It is possible that Tćppa was an uncle or even father or grandfather of Tibba, and therefore his burial is indeed a royal one. The time of his burial is during that of Ceorl, whom many believe was a usurper unrelated to the Icelings, the royal family of Mercia. It is possible Tćppa ruled following Pybba's death and was usurped by Ceorl, or that he was an underking ruling the area of Buckinghamshire.To add to this, Buckinghamshire is not far from Crubridge in Oxfordshire which is thought to be named for Penda's grandfather Creoda. Swain theorizes in his history of Mercia that the battle of Fehtan Leag in 584 was actually between Creoda and the kings of the Gewisse and not Britons and the Gewisse.

    Links about Taplow

    http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=10282

    http://www.indigogroup.co.uk/edge/Taplow.htm

    http://www.archaeology.co.uk/ca/issu...low/taplow.htm

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    Re: Holy places of our Folk

    Somewhere it said that the site of Wewelsburg castle, a town called Petersborn or some name sounding something like this was directly below the portal to Valhallah so that this place was considered directly below it.

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