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Thread: Racial Composition of the Jews

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    Racial Composition of the Jews

    The reality is that Jews are composed of many different subracial elements, generally reflecting those found in surrounding non-Jewish populations. Hence, both phenotypically and genetically, the Ashkenazim show affinities with Europeans, while the Sephardim are more similar to the original Hebrews and other populations of the Middle East.

    Historically the Jews of the Biblical period in Palestine were a Semitic-speaking people composed of various Mediterranean strains which had blended together at the time of the formation of the Jewish nation. These Mediterranean strains must have included a small Mediterranean type comparable to the present Yemeni Arabs; a taller, longer-faced strain with a tendency to nasal convexity, as is found among Irano-Afghan peoples today; and a straight-nosed, presumably Atlanto-Mediterranean element contributed by the Philistines.

    The Rhineland Jews, persecuted at the time of the First Crusade, moved eastward into Poland, the Ukraine and other central European countries, and met there and absorbed a group of Hellenistic Jews moving westward, among whom were some who had lived among the Turkish Khazars in the Crimea and elsewhere. The two groups blended and the Germanic speech of the more numerous western element prevailed. The modern Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazim are the descendants of this amalgamated body. Racially they preserve to a large measure their Mediterranean character, altered partly by Alpine admixture which has in many cases produced Dinaricization. This Alpine, as well as some Nordic, admixture was probably obtained largely in France and Germany before their departure eastward. The most persistent Palestinian Mediterranean traits which the Jews preserve is a narrowness of the face. The Jewish facial expression, by which many Jews may be distinguished, is a cultural and not a genetic character.

    (Carleton S. Coon, The Races of Europe)
    New research has revealed that both Europeans and Central Asians also made significant genetic contributions to Jewish ancestry. Moreover, while the DNA studies have confirmed the close genetic interrelatedness of many Jewish communities, they have also confirmed what many suspected all along: Jews do not constitute a single group distinct from all others. Rather, modern Jews exhibit a diversity of genetic profiles, some reflective of their Semitic/Mediterranean ancestry, but others suggesting an origin in European and Central Asian groups. The blending of European, Semitic, Central Asian and Mediterranean heritage over the centuries has led to today’s Jewish populations.


    The Khazars are often described as "a people of Turkish stock," although such description is misleading (Koestler 1976, p. 13). Although the Khazars spoke a Turkish dialect believed to be related to that spoken today by the peoples of the Chuvash Soviet Republic, their ethnic origins remains a matter of debate. Many of the Eurasian tribes driven westward by the Chinese, including the Huns, were labeled under the generic term of "Turk." The origin of the word "Khazar" most likely derives from the Turkish root "gaz," meaning "to wander" or simply "nomad." (Koestler 1976, p. 21).
    Given that the Khazarian kingdom arose in the area of today’s Ukraine, it is likely that there was a significant amount of indigenous Eastern European ancestry among this group. And, in fact, the various descriptions of the Khazars provided by ancient writers attest to the probable heterogeneous ethnic mixture in this group.

    According to an 11
    th century Arab chronicler Ibn-al-Balkhi, the Khazars are
    . . . to the north of the inhabited earth towards the 7th clime, having over their heads the constellation of the Plough. Their land is cold and wet. Accordingly their complexions are white, their eyes blue, their hair flowing and predominately reddish, their bodies large and their natures cold. Their general aspect is wild" (Koestler 1976, p. 19). An Armenian writer described them as having "insolent, broad, lashless faces and long falling hair, like women
    . (Koestler 1976, p. 20).

    A slightly more flattering picture is provided by Arab geographer Istakhri:
    The Khazars do not resemble the Turks. They are black-haired, and are of two kinds, one called the Kara-Khazars [Black Khazars] who are swarthy verging on deep black as if they were kind of Indian, and a white kind [Ak-Khazars], who are strikingly handsome. (Koestler 1976, p. 20)
    However, Koestler (1976, p. 22) cautions the reader not to place too much weight on this description, since it was customary among Turkish peoples to refer to the ruling classes as "white" and the lower clans as "black."

    It is clear that the Khazars were closely connected to the Huns, who themselves are an ethnic mystery. The Byzantine rhetorician Priscus, who was part of an embassy to Attila the Hun’s court in 448 CE, reported that a people known as the "Akatzirs" or "White Khazars" were subjects of the Huns. According to Koestler (1976, p. 23), "Priscus’s chronicle confirms that the Khazars appeared on the European scene about the middle of the fifth century as a people under Hunnish sovereignty, and may be regarded, together with the Magyars and other tribes, as a later offspring of Attila’s horde." After the collapse of the Hunnish Empire following Attila’s death, the confederation of tribes known as the Khazars eventually gained supremacy in the southern half of Eastern Europe, retaining control of this region for nearly four centuries.

    What became a matter of dispute among historians was the fate of the Jewish Khazars after the destruction of their empire in the 12th- 13th centuries. Koestler argued that remnants of the Khazar tribes migrated into regions of Eastern Europe where the greatest concentrations of Jews were found, eventually merging with those pre-existing communities. In fact, Koestler’s controversial argument was that the Khazars emigrated in substantial enough numbers to have had a significant genetic impact on contemporary Jewish ancestry.

    Frankly, the fact that Jews have substantial European ancestry is obvious to most onlookers – many Jews look like Europeans. The question for DNA researchers was: How much of that European appearance actually translates into European genetic ancestry?

    Diversity was present from Jewish beginnings, when various Semitic and Mediterranean peoples came together to form the Israelites of long ago. The genetic picture was clearly enriched during the Diaspora, when Jews spread far and wide across Europe, attracting converts and intermarrying over time with their European hosts. The most recent DNA evidence indicates that from this blending of Middle Eastern and European ancestors, the diverse DNA ancestry of the Ashkenazi Jews emerged.

    The Cohanim results do not disprove the genetic contribution of the Khazars. Rather, the DNA studies indicate that Jews are not entirely Khazarian, Israelite or European in genetic makeup, but a complex and unique mixture of all these peoples.

    http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.htm

    Key findings: The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into haplogroups J and E.

    Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples such as Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite haplogroups include Q (typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European).

    Dutch Jews
    from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern Europeans.

    Sephardim
    also descend, in a smaller way, from various non-Israelite peoples.

    Georgian Jews
    (Gruzim) are a mix of Georgians and Israelites.

    Yemenite Jews
    (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.

    Moroccan Jews
    , Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly Israelites.

    Libyan Jews
    are mainly Berbers.

    Ethiopian Jews
    are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry. Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite.

    http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html



    So I guess all this means that Ashkenazi Jews are just as much White as are Greeks and Magyars and others that are considered white by some...the main differences being culture and religion...
    According to this site Irish,Britons,Welsh and Basque are not related to the Indo Aryans...but they are still White...


    Source:
    http://www.sitesled.com/members/racialreality/index.html

    Last edited by AryanAmerican; Monday, January 16th, 2006 at 08:43 PM.

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    Re: Jewish Racial Composition

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    Here is a replated topic on the genetic makeup of the Ashkenazi Jews.: http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=46245
    Hmm so 40% of Ashkenazi Jews descend from four non European Women..where does that leave the rest,and all the other Ashkenazi women that came down to today? A mixture like the above quoted...

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    Re: Jewish Racial Composition

    Ashkenazic Jews consist not just of the European racial types, but have other elements in their genpool too. Racially its mainly about Armenid as the distinctive element, secondary Orientalid just very limited Mongolid.

    My ranking for Ashkenazic Jews would be: Armenid, Alpinid, Mediterranid, Nordid, Orientalid, Osteuropid and finally Mongolid.

    On Dodona was a discussion about the "Roman nose" and the (stereotypical) "Jewish nose", this post of mine might fit in too:
    "Roman Noses", European hook noses (mostly Dinaroid derived) for comparison:





    They are sharp, narrower both at the root, bridge and tip, Dinaroid derived and dont show the typical "6 form" of certain (Central-Southern) Armenoid forms.

    This site shows some correct representations of the extreme Armenid forms:
    http://wsi.matriots.com/What%20is%20a%20Jew.html

    They have scanned and quoted Baker too:






    Obviously not all Romans had a "Roman" and not all Jews have a "Jewish" nose, but both terms show whats the important, distinctive component, Dinaroid in the first and Armenoid in the 2nd case.

    That quote on the site mentioned above should be corrected in detail:

    Neither are all Jews Armenid nor is the majority of Armenids Jewish so "some" might be misleading. Furthermore we see in Jews mainly a certain type of Armenoid/Assyrid and in a specific mixture with types mentioned above. Some communities are obviously not even dominantly Armenoid but are of a European type with a certain amount of Armenoid and Orientalid.

    And even from my personal experience I can say that most Jews I met have Armenid admixture but typical Armenids are not that common.
    Last edited by Agrippa; Tuesday, January 17th, 2006 at 03:04 PM.
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    Re: Jewish Racial Composition

    Im getting more confused than I was before..Because some WN and WS say that some Arabs,the Hittites and the Assyrians were white and on that link it says that
    Sephardim are more closely related to Arabs, while Ashkenazim are more related to Armenids/Hittites/Assyrians.
    ,,therefore this would still make most Jews predominatley White,well most Ashkenazi Jews anyway..to say that they had mixture centuries ago doesnt make them white would be like saying that an American that is white but had an ancient ancestor that was Amerindian not white or a Russian who has some distant Asian blood not white is absurd.People cant claim that white Jews are not white and at the same time say whites with ancient Asian or Amerindian are,thats just stupid.Now Im not saying that all Jews are white,but neither are all whites pure..But some Jews are clearly more white than other Jews.

    As for Jews having a mixture of Armenid(white),Hittite(white) and Assyrian(semite),this would make them fall into the white race,just as much as a White person of Alpine,Slavic and Italian ancestry.

    The article mentioned big ears and noses,there are Many whites(100% white) in the south that have these same features.

    OFF TOPIC:

    I suppose since cranial shape is one factor,then the Deustche(Germans of Germany) of today are not truly German by race or White,because they have a flater occuput(back of skull) where as the majority of Europeans(Nordic,and Anglo's and even the Celts) have a rounder one.
    As for slanted eyes,guess alot of Russians are not white either..(I believe they are)...
    Last edited by AryanAmerican; Friday, January 20th, 2006 at 03:20 PM.

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    Re: AW: Jewish Racial Composition

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedwig
    And what exactly is 'white' to them? IMO it is not too useful of a term anthropologically speaking, because of its multiple and different definitions.
    Hmm,well some say that one has to be of European descent,not middle eastern,others say that some groups the Hittites,Original Semites and Arabs were white,,but now they are not through mixing.While others say that the original Arabs,Hittites,Semites and others from the Middle East looked white but are not.And that since Jews come from the ME(and some from Khazara) they are not white...

    I dont see how the shape of the eyes,ears or skulls determines race..Like I said the Germans have different shaped skulls(a flater occuput,sp?) than most other Europeans,and some Russians have slanted eyes does that make them not white,I dont believe it does.The only difference I see between most Jews and other Whites is religion and to some point culture.

    the theoretical Khazar contribution to the bloodline of modern Ashkenazi Jews proposed by some historians is politically sensitive. Current genetic studies show that "Jewish Y-DNA tends to come from the Middle East, and… studies that take into account mtDNA show that many Jewish populations are related to neighboring non-Jewish groups maternally". While these studies also show that some Ashkenazim have non-Jewish, Eastern European ancestors, they contradict claims that the Ashkenazim were primarily descended from Khazars......(Carleton S. Coon, The Races of Europe)

    The reality is that Jews are composed of many different subracial elements, generally reflecting those found in surrounding non-Jewish populations. Hence, both phenotypically and genetically, the Ashkenazim show affinities with Europeans, while the Sephardim are more similar to the original Hebrews and other populations of the Middle East.

    Racially they preserve to a large measure their Mediterranean character, altered partly by Alpine admixture which has in many cases produced Dinaricization. This Alpine, as well as some Nordic, admixture was probably obtained largely in France and Germany before their departure eastward. The most persistent Palestinian Mediterranean traits which the Jews preserve is a narrowness of the face. The Jewish facial expression, by which many Jews may be distinguished, is a cultural and not a genetic character.
    Mediterranean(Like Italians),Alpine(Like Austrians),Nordic(Like Norse)=white.

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