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Thread: John R. Baker's "Osteuropid"

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    Post John R. Baker's "Osteuropid"

    A quote from Race, chapter 13:

    It is often supposed that blondness is an indication of Nordid ancestry. Taken by itself, it is nothing of the kind. ...

    ... the Osteuropids [as blond as the most typical Nordids] of north-eastern Europe, ... are very unlike Nordids in appearance, and seem to be an offshoot of the Alpinids, adapted to a more northernly habitat by greater body size and reduction in pigmentation of the skin, with consequent paleness of the hair. The suggestion is sometimes made that the Osteuropids are Alpinid-Nordid hybrids, but there is no convincing evidence of Nordid ancestry. Fair hair and blue eyes also occur sporadically among the Kabyles of northern Algeria and the Kurds of northern Iraq and the adjacent parts of Turkey and Iran. The original inhabitants of the Canary Islands, the Guanches, were fair-haired and blue-eyed.

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    Avtually you've just described a type called East Baltid. And yes they are related to Alpines since both are UP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wend
    Avtually you've just described a type called East Baltid. And yes they are related to Alpines since both are UP.
    Not me, Baker

    This is quite interesting anyhow. I would like to know who exactly Baker labelled as "Osteuropid". It is not really clear to me whether he was referring to the bulk of the Slavic eastern-European blond population, or only a regional type thereof. Whether he was talking about East Baltids, I cannot tell for sure. I will have to read on...

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    My guess is that he is talking about "blond brachycephals", common in parts of eastern Europe, and even as far west as the Czech republic. A similarity in skull with the Alpinids (who are brachycephalic) is likely.

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    Account Inactive Polak's Avatar
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    Baker was wrong.

    Blondism shows a clear unity in Europe. So it must come from the same source.

    Not only that, but there has been constant contact between the so called Osteuropids and the Nordids.

    In fact, in many cases the Osteuropids are direct descendants of Nordid populations which have been modified through natural and social selection, and environmental pressures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    Baker was wrong.

    Blondism shows a clear unity in Europe. So it must come from the same source.

    Not only that, but there has been constant contact between the so called Osteuropids and the Nordids.

    In fact, in many cases the Osteuropids are direct descendants of Nordid populations which have been modified through natural and social selection, and environmental pressures.
    I tend to agree with Polak. I've never been entirely convinced that the Baltids were totally UP, and even less convinced that the Alpines were their nearest relatives. Baltids have much squarer features, greater height, and more rugged musculature (not to mention all the pigmentation differences). IMO, Alpines are more likely a long-ago offshoot of some Ladogan or Uralic types. The low-rooted nose, cheekbone shape, globular head, and shortness of build all point to this, I think.

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    This Slavic woman may be of the type that Baker was describing. Although fair, she bears no resemblance to the Nordid subrace, but looks more like an extreme depigmented Alpinid:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    This Slavic woman may be of the type that Baker was describing. Although fair, she bears no resemblance to the Nordid subrace, but looks more like an extreme depigmented Alpinid:

    There's a problem with that pic - it's been flattened, making the woman look wider faced than she really is.

    Having said that, she could pass for a Scandinavian or a German. But then she'd be a Borreby.

    Not only that, but I've seen women like her in Poland with children who looked very Nordid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    I've seen women like her in Poland with children who looked very Nordid.
    As far as this is concerned, it is known that one cannot accurately measure the subracial type of sub-adults. Thus I would expect these infants to look much like their mothers when they come to a mature age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    As far as this is concerned, it is known that one cannot accurately measure the subracial type of sub-adults. Thus I would expect these infants to look much like their mothers when they come to a mature age.

    What I should've said was that I actually know families like that. And the kids are teenagers or in their early 20s, not infants.

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