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Thread: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

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    Re: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

    Ukrainian language is a ridiculous attempt to imitate Russian.

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    Re: AW: Re: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Klim Samgin
    Looks quite familiar but I am not sure about the title.
    Title is Ogniem i Mieczem... LOL in english it is with fire and sword..lol Also, Mr. Klim.. Ukrainian is much older than Russian, and by the way, they are both closely related since they are both Eastern Slavs.. And was western Ukraine really under Hungarian control? That might explain why my Ukrainian, and possibly Polish ancestors were dark skinned and had black hair, and for most Ukrainians to look Pontid.. Hell, they might've been part Ruthenian, except they were Roman Catholic.. But if my grandmmother said her husband was Polish and Ukrainian, then there was obviously a Ukrainian Catholic in there too.. Maybe u have solved my problem.. I know Hungarians are a mix of a bunch of different peoples so why not my great grandparents.. I will try to get a photo of them, so I can post it..

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    Re: AW: Re: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Svetovit
    Also, Mr. Klim.. Ukrainian is much older than Russian,
    Oh GOD ALMIGHTY! That is just absurd!
    Neither is older than the other, and it wouldn't matter if they were! To say that a language is very old is just stupid - it would imply that languages never change once they are 'born' somehow, and that's just plain wrong. Languages can occasionally be more 'conservative' but in the case of Great Russian and Little Russian it's more the case that both have diverged in different ways from the original.

    Once upon a time, davnym davno, zhili byli the Slavs. THey spoke Slavonic. Some of them wandered one way, some another. Some had fun with the Avars, some with the Shining Alans, some stayed home, some went north, some east. On their different journeys they met different people, and many pretty girls. They stayed in touch with the Slavs near them and ended up making three main groups. So then we had Eastern Slavonic. THough they could still converse reasonably enough with more distant kin [witness the taunting of King Boleslaw near Kiev, or the ready assumption of Old Church Slavonic]. And Rus' appeared when Rurik managed to graft his warband onto the Eastern Slavonic community. And the centre of Rus' shifted around with varying political fortunes of various regions.

    Once upon a time, Rostov-Suzdal [i.e. later Muscovy] was known as the Zalesskaya Ukraina - the Frontier beyond the Forests. Once, the region around Perm' was the Vostochnaya Ukraina - the Eastern Frontier. And in more recent times the main frontier in the minds of the rulers of what was left of a free Rus' was that in the south. All regions of Eastern Slavonia are equal heirs to the Rus' that was. But that Rus' never lasted very long anyway before collapsing into internecine warfare between rival Ryurikids, hardly the golden age that many think it was. Chauvinists from both camps might be advised to look earlier than Rus', and find the true autochthonous traditions of Eastern Slavdom.

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    AW: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

    That might explain why my Ukrainian, and possibly Polish ancestors were dark skinned and had black hair, and for most Ukrainians to look Pontid..
    That can hardly be true since Pontids-Mediterranids being in those regions before Hungarians existed, before Slavs existed, even before the final formation of Indoeuropeans which date could be discussed...
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

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    Re: AW: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    That can hardly be true since Pontids-Mediterranids being in those regions before Hungarians existed, before Slavs existed, even before the final formation of Indoeuropeans which date could be discussed...
    And can't Pontids be as white of skin as any Nordid, anyway? One I knew was. Isn't there a fair degree of variation on this count present in all races to greater or lesser extents?

    I hate to say it, Svetovit, but there were a fair few Gypsies around the area you talk about!

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    AW: Re: AW: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu
    And can't Pontids be as white of skin as any Nordid, anyway? One I knew was. Isn't there a fair degree of variation on this count present in all races to greater or lesser extents?
    Pontids in general are rather light skinned, lighter on average than standard-Gracilmediterranids, darker than Nordid (on average again) though and with a different complexion if tanned usually from my experience.

    The pigmentation of the right one might be considered as being typical if looking at this Bulgarians for Pontids:


    Bulgarians, many Pontids:


    Bulgarian Gypsies for comparison:
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    Re: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

    To be somewhat correct here, I recently spoke with a Polish/Ukrainian genealogist, and he said that most people in Eastern Europe especially these countries Poland, Ukraine, and Russia, would have some sort of Asiatic influence.. In all parts of Ukraine, and mostly "Eastern" Poland..

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    Re: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Svetovit
    To be somewhat correct here, I recently spoke with a Polish/Ukrainian genealogist, and he said that most people in Eastern Europe especially these countries Poland, Ukraine, and Russia, would have some sort of Asiatic influence.. In all parts of Ukraine, and mostly "Eastern" Poland..

    In Poland anyone who looks a little "funny" is automatically thought to have Tatar blood.

    Most Poles, even university educated historians, have little clue about the Finno-Ugric influence on Poland. They assume that the natives of Poland were always blond and light eyed, and anyone who doesn't fit that stereotype has foreign admixture. And if they have high cheekbones and squinty eyes, then the're part Tatar.

    In fact, the opposite is true, because the aboriginal population of Poland was a lot rounder headed and higher cheek boned, and probably a lot darker, than the Indo-European Slavs.

    Today's Polish population is mostly of Slavic descent, but also with some influence from these Finnic aboriginals, as well as admixture from other parts of Europe.

    True East Asian admixture was brought into Poland much later, with the partly Mongol Tatars who settled in the north east of the country, and also with Kossack armies that occupied Poalnd and included Kalmucks in their ranks.

    Having said all that, East Asian admixture in Poland and Eastern Europe as a whole doesn't seem to be very important. If you look at the latets genetic data you'll see that Eastern Europeans do not deviate from the European average, and in fact here seem to be further away from North American Indians (close relatives of East Asians) than Swedes.



    http://genetics.plosjournals.org/per...0143.eo r.pdf

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    Re: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    In Poland anyone who looks a little "funny" is automatically thought to have Tatar blood.

    Most Poles, even university educated historians, have little clue about the Finno-Ugric influence on Poland. They assume that the natives of Poland were always blond and light eyed, and anyone who doesn't fit that stereotype has foreign admixture. And if they have high cheekbones and squinty eyes, then the're part Tatar.

    In fact, the opposite is true, because the aboriginal population of Poland was a lot rounder headed and higher cheek boned, and probably a lot darker, than the Indo-European Slavs.

    Today's Polish population is mostly of Slavic descent, but also with some influence from these Finnic aboriginals, as well as admixture from other parts of Europe.

    True East Asian admixture was brought into Poland much later, with the partly Mongol Tatars who settled in the north east of the country, and also with Kossack armies that occupied Poalnd and included Kalmucks in their ranks.

    Having said all that, East Asian admixture in Poland and Eastern Europe as a whole doesn't seem to be very important. If you look at the latets genetic data you'll see that Eastern Europeans do not deviate from the European average, and in fact here seem to be further away from North American Indians (close relatives of East Asians) than Swedes.



    http://genetics.plosjournals.org/per...0143.eo r.pdf
    Of course, you're just speaking of the general population.. Plus I do not think it is Finnic but Ugric/Ladogan ..

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    Re: Mongol Admixture in Ukraine

    There's actually no proof that there was anything like the Ladogan type. This was one of Coon's many mistakes.

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