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Thread: Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

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    Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

    The human colonization of Europe was mainly done in four different stages in Prehistoric times. The first colonization of Europe was done in the Upper Paleolithic, around 45,000 years ago. These first Cro-Magnon settlers came from North-West Asia, where they had developed the R1 haplotype in the Y Chromosome. They established themselves in the European Glacier refuges of Iberia and North Caucasus. The Iberian Cro-Magnons developed the R1b haplotype, while those established between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea developed the R1a haplotype.

    20,000 years ago, at the end of the Upper Paleolithic and the beginning of the Mesolithic, the second stage took place. Human populations established themselves in the Glacier refuge of the Balkans. These Cro-Magnons came from the Middle East, where they had developed the I haplotype, closely related to the G, J, and K Neolithic haplotypes, as all of them were mutations of the ancient F haplotype.




    The third stage took place 12,000 years ago. The Glacial ice began moving back to the polar regions. The three populations established in Iberia, the Balkans, and the Caucasus, began the colonization of the rest of Europe. The “R1b Iberians” colonized the European Atlantic coast, from Gibraltar to Jutland including the British Isles and some parts of Italy and Germany; the “R1a Caucasics” colonized all Eastern Europe; and finally the “I Balkanics” colonized Central Europe and the Scandinavian Peninsula.



    The fourth and final stage took place in the Neolithic. 8,000 years ago people from the Middle East carrying Neolithic haplotypes (mainly E3b, G, J and K) expanded all over the Mediterranean coast. 4,500 years ago, people coming from Asia and carrying the N haplotype established themselves in the Eastern Baltic Regions.



    All these different populations didn’t remain completely isolated and European inter-mix took place, leaving us the following map of Europe:
    http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/Wo...groupsMaps.pdf

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    Re: Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

    So, whereas R1b made it to southern Europe first. Haplogroup I made it to scandinavia first?

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    Re: Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

    And there has been mixing between these three major Y-haplogroups of Europe ever since...
    Wielki i starożytny rodzaj, wy zgnietliście podstępnych wrogów. Z starożytną mistyczką może, złączoną byłam waszymi hałasami..

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    Re: Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagelfar View Post
    So, whereas R1b made it to southern Europe first. Haplogroup I made it to scandinavia first?
    Well, I don't know who arrived first to Scandinavia. During the Last Age, R1b populations took refge in Iberia, while I populations did it in the Balkans.

    I haplogroup is majoritary in Sweden and Norway, while R1b is majoritary in Denmark, West Norway and Iceland. I suppose both populations arrived more or less at the same time.

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    Re: Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

    R1b seems like it is densest at the tips of Scandinavia, coming presumably from the much more dense western British isles;
    http://www.relativegenetics.com/geno...b_large_RG.jpg
    I1a seems much more concentrated in Norway & Sweden, seems to be centered in Trondheim, actually. Which makes me think it was 'squeezed' in by the others, and was thus there originally;
    http://www.relativegenetics.com/geno...a_large_RG.jpg
    R1a looks pretty much centered in several areas in eastern Europe. In Scandinavia, it is 'thickest' around the area of Oslo, Norway. Though that is also its most major city and major population area. Could be related to more modern population movements.
    http://www.relativegenetics.com/geno...a_large_RG.jpg
    Last edited by Nagelfar; Monday, December 25th, 2006 at 01:37 AM. Reason: r1b link mistakenly typed out as r1a

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    Re: Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

    It appears there is a significant R1b population in the Caucasus.. How is this, since it is from West? Could it be that R1b is recent Indo-European from Caucasus?
    Wielki i starożytny rodzaj, wy zgnietliście podstępnych wrogów. Z starożytną mistyczką może, złączoną byłam waszymi hałasami..

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    Re: Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Klegutati View Post
    It appears there is a significant R1b population in the Caucasus.. How is this, since it is from West? Could it be that R1b is recent Indo-European from Caucasus?
    It seems to be associated with the Ossets [who as you know are the descendants of Alans, Sarmatians, Scythians and such folk].
    Perhaps the unusual look of the map might be explained by a bottle necking of the male population during the 'de-Iranicisation' of the steppes, followed by a chance founder effect among the subsequently resurgent Ossets?
    Or maybe simpler - I doubt that sufficient genetic study has been made of the huge spaces in question in the Ukraine and southern Russia!
    Or else the very high incidence of R1A in the Steppe there is obscuring things.

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    Re: Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

    There may be two possibilities:

    1. Last studies say that R1b probably didn't appear in Iberia. It already existed 35,000 years ago, and that while the bulk of the R1b population settled in Iberia during the last Ice Age, a few of them remained in Eastern Europe, representing the current R1b influence in the Caucasus, Anatolia and Eastern Europe. This would explain the fact that the R1b subclades found in Eastern Europe are much older than those found in Western Europe.

    Indo-European remnants could also be an answer if we follow any of the Euro-centric theories, which I personally accept. I started my own theory on Aryan invasions, but it is difficult to sustain if we accept the information of the previous paragraph.
    http://forums.skadi.net/my_theory_ar...ghlight=theory

    2. The other possibility could simply be that the map is not accurate enough. For example, the map shows a rate of almost 0% of R1b in Galicia and Asturias according to the light colour, when the real numbers are of 56% in Galicia and 60% in Asturias.

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    Re: Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaico View Post
    There may be two possibilities:

    1. Last studies say that R1b probably didn't appear in Iberia. It already existed 35,000 years ago, and that while the bulk of the R1b population settled in Iberia during the last Ice Age, a few of them remained in Eastern Europe, representing the current R1b influence in the Caucasus, Anatolia and Eastern Europe. This would explain the fact that the R1b subclades found in Eastern Europe are much older than those found in Western Europe.

    Indo-European remnants could also be an answer if we follow any of the Euro-centric theories, which I personally accept. I started my own theory on Aryan invasions, but it is difficult to sustain if we accept the information of the previous paragraph.
    http://forums.skadi.net/my_theory_ar...ghlight=theory

    2. The other possibility could simply be that the map is not accurate enough. For example, the map shows a rate of almost 0% of R1b in Galicia and Asturias according to the light colour, when the real numbers are of 56% in Galicia and 60% in Asturias.
    So, it is proven that R1b in Western Europe is Paleolithic European? What about the sub-clades of R1b like the 23/11 on STRs 390 and 391 (Frisian type).. I know they represent a mainland Celtic haplotype in and around Germany area. Would they be from the reindeer Hamburger-, Federmesser,- Bromme,- and Ahrensburg-Cultures from 12500-8900 BCE? Would they (R1b1c9*) in a general aspect be from the Iberian refuge? The descendant culture of the reindeer cultures is the Ertebølle culture of Denmark, and North-West Germany. Would this culture represent the Frisian R1b?
    Wielki i starożytny rodzaj, wy zgnietliście podstępnych wrogów. Z starożytną mistyczką może, złączoną byłam waszymi hałasami..

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    Re: Genetic History of Europe (Y-Chromosome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Klegutati View Post
    So, it is proven that R1b in Western Europe is Paleolithic European? What about the sub-clades of R1b like the 23/11 on STRs 390 and 391 (Frisian type).. I know they represent a mainland Celtic haplotype in and around Germany area. Would they be from the reindeer Hamburger-, Federmesser,- Bromme,- and Ahrensburg-Cultures from 12500-8900 BCE? Would they (R1b1c9*) in a general aspect be from the Iberian refuge? The descendant culture of the reindeer cultures is the Ertebølle culture of Denmark, and North-West Germany. Would this culture represent the Frisian R1b?
    Sincerely, I have no idea. I assume they descend from the population that took refuge in Iberia, but you should ask someone better informed.

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