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Thread: "Germany Exists in Juridical Limbo"... Second Reich? Fourth Reich? No Reich?

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    Question "Germany Exists in Juridical Limbo"... Second Reich? Fourth Reich? No Reich?

    I found this article on some site. It's amazing really, and confusing.


    Germany: 58 Years of US Occupation

    by Christopher Bollyn



    POTSDAM, Germany - The Allied occupation of Germany began 58 years ago this month and in the eyes of many Germans has not yet ended. Foreign armies are still based on German soil and Europe's largest and most prosperous "democracy" still lacks a constitution and a peace treaty putting a formal end to the Second World War.

    The reunified German nation, considered a modern European democracy, has no constitution other than the temporary Basic Law (Grundgesetz) originally written in 1948, under the guidance of the U.S. military occupation forces and originally meant only to apply to the western parts of Germany under U.S. control.

    The Basic Law was removed at the request of former Secretary of State James Baker at a Paris conference of the Allied powers and the two former German states on July 17, 1990. The two German states were legally abolished at this conference. As a result of these changes, the Basic Law does not legally apply to the reunified German state, according to some legal experts.

    In any case, the Basic Law is incomplete and contradictory and article 139 states that the numerous Allied occupation laws and proclamations remain in effect. The Basic Law has never been ratified by a vote of the people.

    The fact that the flawed and temporary Basic Law serves as Germany's de facto constitution is unacceptable to Wolfgang Gerhard Günter Ebel, Germany's provisional Reichskanzler. Ebel heads the provisional government that claims to be the legal successor to the Second German Reich, which was replaced by Adolf Hitler's illegal Third Reich (1933-45).

    On 5 June 1945, the Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force (SHAEF) accepted Germany's declaration of defeat and quickly moved to recognize the legitimacy of the Zweite Deutsche Reich (Second German Reich), which was claimed to have been illegally displaced by Hitler's Third Reich.

    The SHAEF laws underpinned a treaty between the occupation authorities and the Second German Reich, in which the latter was invested with full administrative rights and governmental sovereignty throughout most of Berlin and in all of the German states. After WWII ended, a parallel state, founded by ambitious lawyers and Zionist activists and still known as the Federal Republic of Germany (BRD), competed with the Second German Reich for legitimacy.

    Following the collapse of the DDR, East Germany's Democratic Republic, a treaty known as the "2 Plus 4" confirmed that only the Second German Reich, now led by Reichskanzler (Prime Minister) Dr Wolfgang Gerhard Guenter Ebel, represented the legitimate German State. In July 1990, the Secretary of the US Department of State, James Baker, confirmed in writing to German Chancellor Helmut Kohl that the BRD had come to the end of its lifetime and should be dissolved. From that moment on, the United Nations destroyed all
    of its stationery and placards that carried the words "Federal Republic of Germany" or BRD and replaced them with use of the broader term "Germany" in lieu of the anticipated "German Reich".

    Almost everyone in diplomatic circles around the world expected the re-emergent German Reich to take over where the BRD had left off. Yet the government in Bonn, and later in Berlin, continued and still continues to act and behave as if nothing really happened: a sort of disembodied ghost that has no idea that its corpse perished many years ago.

    Despite this highly unusual situation, the Second German Reich continues to issue its own passports and driving licenses. Over the last two or three years there has been a sharp increase in the number of motorists who have been acquitted for speeding or parking offences, simply on the strength of their having produced a German Reich driving license.

    The illegal German government in Berlin is so worried about the publicity, it has leaned heavily on newspapers not to report on such matters and it has instructed judges to dismiss cases where a defendant is likely to prove that his citizenship of the German Reich permits him not to recognize the BRD and its courts as legitimate administrative constructs. They are horrified at the publicity each of these cases brings.

    Right now, "Germany rests on the 2nd Reich" and on the constitution of the Weimar Republic created on August 11, 1919, Wolfgang Gerhard Günter Ebel told AFP. This is the only legal constitution for Germany, according to Ebel, until a peace treaty is signed. According to the provisional government, the Final Settlement of Sept. 12, 1990 is not valid because it was negotiated and
    signed by the foreign ministers of the two German states, the BRD and the DDR, both of which legally ceased to exist after the Paris conference of July 17, 1990.

    "The German government is illegal," Ebel told AFP, "and what they do has no basis in law." Asked how it could be that the German people are unaware of this situation, Ebel said: "The German media is still under the control of the Allies. The entire media is controlled.

    "The Second World War has not ended, because a peace treaty has not been signed between Germany and the Allies," " Ebel says, "The peace contract is the most important thing that we need and want." Because there is no formal peace treaty between Germany and the Allies, headed by the United States, German sovereignty is compromised. "Until we have a peace treaty, Germany
    is a colony of the United States."

    Some 80,000 U.S. military personnel are permanently based in Germany and Britain also continues to base troops and military equipment in the western German zone they formerly occupied. It is not uncommon to see British tanks on the streets of the area near Münster in Westphalia.

    U.S. occupation laws handed down by the Supreme Headquarter Allied Expeditionary Force (SHAEF) are still in effect, Ebel said. The first law, Proclamation No. 1, making General Dwight D. Eisenhower supreme authority in the areas under U.S. control was signed on Feb. 13, 1944. Allied authorities have informed Ebel that these SHAEF laws will remain in effect for 60 years from the date of signing and apply to all of Europe.

    Calls to the U.S. State Department in Washington and the U.S. Embassy in Berlin concerning the validity of SHAEF laws and U.S. occupation proclamations in Germany were not returned.

    "When there is a peace treaty - when the wound is healed - many things will change," Ebel says, "not only for Germany, but for the whole world. "The United Nations is also provisional - if there is a peace treaty between Germany and the Allies [primarily the United States] - the UN will cease to exist as we know it," Ebel said. The UN organization was founded in 1945 and originated with the 26 nations that had joined the anti-Nazi coalition in 1942. By 1944 the coalition had grown to include 47 nations.

    The UN Charter contains "enemy state clauses" [Articles 53 and 107], which were established because of Germany and name it as the "enemy state." "The Bundesrepublik Deutschland, (the former West German state), is not the legal successor or inheritor of the Second German Reich," according to Ebel. For this reason, a legal peace treaty cannot be signed by the current German
    government in Berlin, he said.

    "Until the real government is established and voted by the people," Ebel said, the provisional government is necessary to "fulfill the role of the legal German government." The Allies have authorized Ebel to serve as head of the provisional government, he says. A civil servant with the German railroad, Ebel was born in Berlin in 1939 and is a citizen of the German Reich, having never held citizenship of either German state that resulted from the Second World War.

    Berlin was a separate zone and "has never been part of the BRD or DDR," Ebel said. Ebel was first appointed by the U.S. Military Court in Berlin to serve as Rechtskonsulent for Prussia on Sept. 23, 1980. On Jan. 9, 1984, the U.S. State Department in Berlin appointed Ebel to serve as the head of the German railroad (Reichsbahn) in West Berlin. Exactly forty years after the German military (Wehrmacht) surrendered, on May 8, 1985, Ebel was appointed as Transportation Minister for the German Reich by the U.S. High Commissioner in Germany, who he says was then U.S. Ambassador to West Germany (BRD) Richard Burt.

    Finally, on Sept. 27, 2000, Ebel was appointed chancellor of the German Reich (Reichskanzler) by Ernst Matscheko, a representative of the U.S. Dept. of Justice. Matscheko reportedly asked Ebel to name a Reichspräsident and a special ambassador to the United Nations.
    The U.S. Embassy in Berlin will neither confirm nor deny the claims made by Ebel, for which he presents documents as evidence. A spokesman at the U.S. Embassy told AFP: "We are not responsible for what they [the Reich's government] claim."

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    Re: "Germany exists in juridical limbo"...Second Reich? Fourth Reich? No Riech?

    I've got to admit, I find this one baffling: anyone care to expand a little on the implications?
    --------------------------------------------------------
    There is nothing the matter with Americans except their ideals. The real American is all right; it is the ideal American who is all wrong. ~G.K. Chesterton

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    Re: "Germany exists in juridical limbo"...Second Reich? Fourth Reich? No Riech?

    I know from before that once Allied occupation officially ends, the second German Reich + Weimar shall be reconstituted together with the post-WW1 borders.

    But little did I know that Germany has an official REICHSKANZLER, approved by the Yanks.

    As Bran said: Someone with more info?

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    Re: "Germany exists in juridical limbo"...Second Reich? Fourth Reich? No Riech?

    Apparently this is the official site of this... "Zweiten Reich" or whatever it is:

    http://www.reichsland-bayern.de/

    Some other sites:

    http://www.krr-faq.de/

    http://www.principality-of-sealand.d...f/shaef_e.html (in English)

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    Present German State Legal???

    I don't speak German so I don't understand what this website exactly informs but it's something about the illegality of modern Germany and legitimacy of the Second Reich...


    http://friedensvertrag.info

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    Re: Present German State Legal???

    Quote Originally Posted by Racial Philosopher
    I don't speak German so I don't understand what this website exactly informs but it's something about the illegality of modern Germany and legitimacy of the Second Reich...


    http://friedensvertrag.info
    The German-less reader can now go to one of my posts (in English) to find out a little about this issue:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.p...770#post371770

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    Re: Present German State Legal???

    At one time or another I have seen literature from Bavarians and Prussians saying they are or should be independent.

    The German language site you linked, Hippy, is all about the legality of the current German Federal Republic and if it is a real country or just a pupet state. This discussion has a whole history of philosophy of its own.

    Some problems are that post war Germany didn't start real well. Admiral Doenitz, successor of Hitler, surrendered the three fighting forces of the German military, the Army, Navy and Air Force. Nowhere is the civillian government of Germany mentioned. Maybe Doenitz headed the government as successor to Hitler, I don't know, but the civillian government did not surrender as a seperate entity. Does this mean the 3rd Reich exists? Or does the 3rd Reich exist in exile? Another interesting detail is that Doenitz did not surrender that other fighting force, the SS. Throughout most of the war the SS was under command of Hitler who commanded everything else. At the very end of the war, Himmler was in charge of part of the Army and still in charge of the SS. Himmler was fired by Hitler at the very end. Hitler killed himself, though, and the SS swore an oath to Hitler, not the Army or Doenitz. So who was in charge of the SS at the end and did Doenitz's surrender bind the SS?

    After the fall of the Berlin wall, all the former Allied Powers raced to do a final treaty with Germany officially ending the war. This means that prior to this Germany was not an independent country.

    I think that since these last treaties were done, Germany is now an independent country. The situation with Poland may come up in the future and that may be the only point of trouble dating back to the war. But World War Two is not the start of territorial disputes between Germany and Poland. We all remember that land has changed hands over and over in the past. This remains an open sore for both countries and peoples but did not originate in the 20th Century.

    I am sure there are Germans who will see this thread which can give you better and more detailed answers than I can and more informed opinion.

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    Re: Present German State Legal???

    A few simple facts. German Third Reich NEVER signed a peace treaty. Existence of Third Reich was then NEVER terminated. Current German state, better to use the word "One big jewish Guantanamo" (as prof. Faurisson said) is still being occupied by US Army. German state is controlled by pro-jewish government, pays hundreds of millions of EURO to Israel every year and freedom of speech doesn´t exists. If you would say "I don´t accept the legitimacy of current German state", you´re legally quite correct.

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    Sv: Present German State Legal???

    I'm no jurist, and my knowledge of Germany's constitutional status since 1918 isn't perfect, but these are my perceptions.
    Germany's legal code between 33-45 ("third Reich") didn't break with the legal code of Kaiserreich and Weimar, but reformed and implemented new legal acts (which all where abandoned by the post-War government and the Allies). Contemporary Germany isn't illegal, but the occupation law (Basic Law) where to be abandoned when the occupation ended, and pre-1933 constitution reimplemented. However, the "cold war" began, so this didn't occur, and when East Germany was absorbed by the western state, West Germany's occupation laws/constitions became national, and haven't changed. So Germany have occupation laws, just as Japan still have to some degree, but that doesn't mean - in the juridical sense - that the Bundesrepublik is illegal and the Hitler regime is still valid, but rather that Germany's present constitution and legal codes where implemented by the western occupation powers.

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    Re: Present German State Legal???

    Quote Originally Posted by Racial Philosopher
    I don't speak German so I don't understand what this website exactly informs but it's something about the illegality of modern Germany and legitimacy of the Second Reich...

    http://friedensvertrag.info

    The "Third Reich" is actually no legal entity or concept. The Weimar constitution has only been suspended in 1933. Yes it is confirmed that the 'Deutsche Reich' still persists as a legal entity. Die "BRD" is a creation of the occupants.

    Actually even present day BRD-courts confirm this:

    "...Es wird daran festgehalten (vgl zB BVerfG, 1956-08-17, 1 BvB 2/51, BVerfGE 5, 85 <126>), daß das Deutsche Reich den Zusammenbruch 1945 überdauert hat und weder mit der Kapitulation noch durch die Ausübung fremder Staatsgewalt in Deutschland durch die Alliierten noch später untergegangen ist; es besitzt nach wie vor Rechtsfähigkeit, ist allerdings als Gesamtstaat mangels Organisation nicht handlungsfähig. Die BRD ist nicht "Rechtsnachfolger" des Deutschen Reiches, sondern als Staat identisch mit dem Staat "Deutsches Reich", - in bezug auf seine räumliche Ausdehnung allerdings "teilidentisch"...."

    http://friedensvertrag.info/cont/cms/front_content.php?idcatart=452&lang=1&cl ient=1

    Use babelfish to translate!
    "And God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which they should so anxiously guard, or of which they are to be such good guardians, as of the purity of the race. They should observe what elements mingle in their offspring;..." Plato Politeia

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