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Thread: Serbs and Croats are of Sarmatian Origin

  1. #1
    Member Awar's Avatar
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    Post Serbs and Croats are of Sarmatian Origin

    As most of you probably know, both Serbs and Croats have always been regarded as a part of the Slavs. I'm not contesting that NOW Serbs and Croats are Slavs, but there is a more ancient origin of both these peoples.

    The names Srb i Hrvat have absolutely no meaning in any slavic language, the Serbs and Croats themselves don't know what it means, and some toponyms ( names of places ) bearing the names Serb and Croat appear in the least likely places in Eurasia.

    Official history doesn't truly bother with the subject of Slavs, neither does it consern with Serbs and Croats, so the official story is that all Slavs lived north of Carpats, and then they moved, end of story.

    I'll try to tell you a different, more accurate story.

    The Sarmats are an Iranian people who lived in the steppes north of the Caspian and Black sea. They spoke an Iranian language and most probably refered to themselves as Aryans, but also had many tribal names.

    Since the domestication of the horse, the Aryans have been the most powerful people in the steppes. The earliest known Aryans who lived such a life were the Kimmerians, Masagets, Scythians and Sarmatians. Most of these names were given to them by foreigners, but all of them refered to themselves as Aryans.

    The only Sarmatian people who survived into the medieval times were the Alans ( again, a version of the word Aryan ). The direct descendants of Alans are today's Ossets, who live in Caucasus. The Ossets call themselves Iron ( again, a version of the word 'Aryan').

    The Sarmatians were a very mobile, warlike people, who had a religion of their own, vastly similar to the original beliefs of the most ancient Aryans. The Sarmatians coined the 'feigned retreat' tactic, which was later adopted by Turks and Mongols. In fact, the lifestyle of the Aryan nomads used as a role-model for Huns,Turks and Mongols.

    The Goths, Vandals and other Germanics learned the cavalry skills from Alans.

    The Vandals also show a relation to Slavs. They were probably Slavs who went through Germanic influence during their travels with the Alans.

    The Alans were the most famous of the Sarmatians, since their legendary conquests lead them all the way through Germania, Italia, Gaul, Hispania, and finally they settled in Tunisia, where they established a kingdom alongside Vandals. From there, they were used by Byzantium in their battles against Sassanid Persia.
    The remnants of Alans settled near Orleans in France, some of them were used as mercenaries in the battle of Hastings in 1066.

    Finally, the Sarmatians were always described by historians to be gigantic in stature, fair-haired, blue eyed and fierce. The burial sites and kurgans prove this.

    In Iranian legends, there are mentions of Serbs. Apparently, Serbs are a tribe from the Iranian province of Sarvestan ( land of Cypress ) where they were the guardian tribes of the Cypress of Zarathustra. The Cypress in Aryan and Zoroastrian mythology is a holy tree ( Zarathustra was the reformer of the Aryan pagan religion in Iran ). As Legend says, the Emperor of Persia conquered some new lands which were rich, but had restless inhabitants.

    The Cypress of Zarathustra was cut down by an Arabian Khalifa in the 8th century AD. as a symbol of victory of Islam over Aryans. The Khalifa died of illness before the pieces of the Cypress were shown to him.

    The Iranians from Sarvestan even today wear traditional folk clothes which are very resemblant of Serbian traditional clothes, especially the 'opanci'.
    The women of Sarvestan, although Muslim, refuse to cover their faces.

    I've researched Croatians much less, but I've gotten information that there was a province in western Iran called Horuvathia, which translates to 'Land of the heroes'. In fact, the meaning of the word Hrvat in ancient Iranian is 'Hero'.

    So, Serbs are 'Guardians of the Cypress' and Croats are 'Heroes'.

    The Iranian Serbs and Croats lived somewhere around Caucasus ( in chechen language Ser-bi means 'people'), from where they entered the Russian steppes. In the Steppes they probably became the ruling class among Slavs. The only remnants of the Iranian origin of Serbs and Croats is their name and the influence of the Iranian pantheon on the south Slavs. The slavic pagan gods such as Khors, Simargl, Swarog etc. are Iranian in origin.

    The Sarmatians were horsemen, unlike the Slavs. The oldest title of ruler among Slavs is 'Knez' or 'Knyaz' this word is similar to Germanic 'Koenig'. 'Knyaz' translates to 'he who has a horse' or 'horseman'. The name Attila has the same meaning as Knyaz.

    The Iranian Serbs and Croats were Slavicized very quickly ( somwehere between 450-550 AD.) but they remained very warlike and mobile. The Sarmatian dynasty who ruled the Serbs and Croats lead them into the west. They first settled near today's Hannover, and gradually moved down to what is now known as Saxony ( Saxon is thought to originate from Iranian word 'Saka' which is a name for Scythians ( nomad warriors )).
    The remnants of those days are the Sorbs ( refer to themselves as Srby ) who still live in those parts. ( Luzicky Srby ).

    In the following years, the Serbs and Croats established kingdoms in todays Slovakia and southern Poland. These kingdoms were called White-Serbia and White-Croatia. These kingdoms survived until the 9th century and the arrival of asiatic Magyars.

    The great migrations of people brought in a new player into Europe. The Avars were a tribal union from Asia. These Mongolian nomads were fierce warriors who preyed upon the rich Byzantium. In those days, Avars established a powerful empire in todays Hungary, but the boundaries of this empire changed daily.
    The Avars used as mercenaries in many battles of those times. Byzantium used Avars to fight off Slavs in the Balkans, but soon the Avarian Khagan Bayan decided the time is right to assault Byzantine cities. After the Avars sacked Sirmium and tried to conquer Constantinople the Byzantine emperor Heraclius called upon Serbs and Croats as mercenaries to fight Avars. Byzantium was paying 80.000 gold pieces every year to Avars.

    The Byzantines settled Serbs in Macedonia, from there, the Serbs fought off the Avarian Khaganate, and after Bayan's death, the Khaganate fragmented into warring tribes.

    The settling of Serbs in the Balkans was decisive in their abandoning the nomad lifestyle. The Balkans couldn't provide for a cavalry based army. The next step in the abandoning of Iranian heritage was the Christianization.

    The Croats had a similar fate, only they came under the influence of the Frankish empire in the west.

    In medieval times, the Alans were welcomed in Serbia. The Alans were called the Yasi, and they were nobles in the Serbian kingdom.

    Even today, there are Croatian historians who claim that Croats hail from Iran. The genetical composition of Serbs(less) and Croats(more) shows strong affinities towards Iran and Caucasus.

    The etimology of the names Serb ( SRB ) and Croat ( HRV-at ) show connection to Sarmat ( SaRM-at ) and apart from Iranian, they show connection to Caucasian ( checheno-ingush ) languages.

    I'm not saying that what I wrote has to be the definitive version of the events at those times, but the official version of the history of Serbs, Croats and other Slavs is deliberately full of holes and inaccuracies. The simplistic approach to Scythians, Sarmatians and Slavs isn't enough, and there must be more research regarding the events that brought the existence of most Sarmats to an end, and the uprising of a relatively similar people, the Slavs. The Iranian origin of Serbs and Croats is very likely, especially when we know that similar things happened throughout history.

    Antes - Iranian ruled Slavs.
    Bulgarians - Turkic ruled Slavs.
    Hungarians - Turko-Ugric ruled Slavs.
    France - Germanic ruled Celto-Romans

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    Great post my friend! I have also read that the word "serbo" in Latin means borderer(granicar) I could be mistaken though.What do you think? Serbs and Croats have more in common than most would admit.



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    Member Awar's Avatar
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    As I said, I'm not 100% sure, but this is more accurate than the official version.

    Serbs and Croats were the same nation not too long ago. The animosity between these two nations is artificial in a great deal. After all, the language is almost completely identical, the culture seems to be only differing in the period after the schism of christianity.

    The Dalmatian and Herzegovian portion of the Croats used to declare themselves as Serbs of catholic faith. ( after the orthodox church refused the catholic Serbs of the right to call themselves Serbs, these Catholics became the most zealous supporters of Croatian nationalism, and the destruction of Orthodox christianity ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    The Dalmatian and Herzegovian portion of the Croats used to declare themselves as Serbs of catholic faith. ( after the orthodox church refused the catholic Serbs of the right to call themselves Serbs, these Catholics became the most zealous supporters of Croatian nationalism, and the destruction of Orthodox christianity ).
    Sad but true.They are usually very nationalistic.



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    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    I've never considered the Balkans to be predominantly racially Slavic in the original sense of that word.

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    Account Inactive Polak's Avatar
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    Slavic and ancient Iranian people mixed all over the place.

    To be a Slav today means that you will have Scythian or Sarmatian blood in you.

    Poles certainly have Sarmatian ties, and a great many Russians and Ukrainians are directly of ancient Iranian descent.

    So I don't see how you can seperate the two today. How are Serbs more Sarmatian than Poles? Just because they have a Sarmatian name, and Poles do not?

    Not only that, but Slavs, Balts and the ancient Iranians come from the same people, the Kurgans of the steppes.

    The least Iranian are the Czechs. They are actually a Slavic/Keltic mix.

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    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    When you speak of ancient Iranians, what subtype are you visualizing? I've heard people call Iranians everything from Danubian to Afghan.

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    Account Inactive Polak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    When you speak of ancient Iranians, what subtype are you visualizing? I've heard people call Iranians everything from Danubian to Afghan.

    The ancient Iranians were Nordics of the Corded variety. They were the descendants of the more southernly Kurgan people - narrower faced than those to the north, who gave rise to the Slavs and Balts.

    Their blood still runs strong in north-eastern Ukraine and southern Russia. And most of the people there look Corded Nordic.

    In fact, that's where most of the Sarmatian and Scythian blood is in Europe now.

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    Member Triglav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    As I said, I'm not 100% sure, but this is more accurate than the official version.

    Serbs and Croats were the same nation not too long ago. The animosity between these two nations is artificial in a great deal. After all, the language is almost completely identical, the culture seems to be only differing in the period after the schism of christianity.

    The Dalmatian and Herzegovian portion of the Croats used to declare themselves as Serbs of catholic faith. ( after the orthodox church refused the catholic Serbs of the right to call themselves Serbs, these Catholics became the most zealous supporters of Croatian nationalism, and the destruction of Orthodox christianity ).
    Are there any such tendencies towards hostility between Montenegrins and Serbs? In other words: how do you guys get along with each other?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slovenian
    Are there any such tendencies towards hostility between Montenegrins and Serbs? In other words: how do you guys get along with each other?
    I get along with everyone just fine

    Polak is right, the Sarmatians and other ancient Iranian tribes were Corded Nordids, different from the Iranians of today.

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