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Thread: Why Did Hitler/Germany Lose World War II?

  1. #21
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    Originally posted by Dzerzhinsky
    Germany lost because rather than sit back and reep the rewards of his western european conquest (minus England), Hitler thought he could defeat the 'inferior' slavs. of course, he couldn't and the Red Army went on to inflict 80%-90% of German casualties. declaring war on USA was a mistake, and not invading Britain when he had a chance was also a mistake, and thinking his 'superior' race could take over the world, that was a pretty big mistake aswell.
    Stop parroting that red Jew-Propaganda! eyes:

    a) You should read the books of Victor Woworow, then you would know that Germany came a soviet Invasion only 14 days before.

    thats what the Reds would have liked, if we would have went on with a Invasion of england and left our rear totaly undefended.
    The Soviets had 15.000 Tanks, and 1 Million trained paratroopers, while Germany had in total arround 3700 tanks (inclusive totaly obsolete junk like Pz.I and II ). The soviets had at our borders statione around 6 Million Soldiers and their entire airforce was crowded at field-airfields near the border.

    b) I dont know where you get that Idea from, that the Germans thought of themselves as "master Race" - I guess thats the communist education System. Making the entire German Leadership responsible for the mistakes of a few Governours and Jerks, is hardly a a way to view history.

    I like how these "Panslavs" constanly ramble about alledged german hatred of slavs, while at the same time we had the best relations with slav countries like Slovakia, Croatia, Bulgaria.
    Its just a communist trick, to disguise the NS-anticommunism as "anti-slavic" ressentiments. Just a trick to get the Slav People to hate Germans.

    c) The USA was allready at War with us. The decleration of ours just finaly gave us free hand to shoot back!

  2. #22
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    Originally posted by Oswald Mosley
    HAIL VICTORY, WEHRMACHT!

    It's nice to be here, thank you for your welcome comrade!


    I think that a lot of the blame must fall on the shoulders of Himmler, who should have carried out closer surveillance on the generals of the 'old guard'. It's interesting that the Kriegsmarine was generally much more loyal to the Fuehrer (apart from Canaris). And much the same can be said of the Luftwaffe.
    Actually, you are being unjust to him here.

    He also had a bunch of those traitors sitting in his offices.

    Like the Police President of Berlin Count von Helldorf. He covered the conspiration in Berlin and prevented that the security system functioned.
    Then there was Arthur Nebe, chief of the Krimminal-Police. He only blew his cover, because he fled after the failed coup on Hitler. Otherwise no one would have noticed it.

    I also read, that in 1942 the Gestapo was gettin more evidence of some sort of plot and it leading into high ranks of the Army, a high ranking Gestapo "Krimminalrat" was in Keitels office with files and wanted to show him evidence. Keitel was outraged, because it was simply for them unbelievable that such things could happen. He chased the guy out of his office with the words "You are mad! A GERMAN OFFICER does not conspire!"

    Then there was harmut Plaas, former Freekorps Man and member of Brigade Ehrhard. Rather a National-Bolshewist. He was in Görings Forschungsamt which tapped all telephones. Also a traitor. He kept Canaris informed, over details that the Gestapo is on this or that trail and Canaris could then evade.
    Unfortunately the Gestapo did not work like they show in the movies: that you are dragged off, beaten and tortured to confession.
    they had to collect evidence like every other state-security system and only then were able to act if they had enough proof.

    Thats what I meant with Stalinism: Be a bit more loose with the whipp and not so fussy. Just the slightest suspicion would be enough to get one off his post and into a camp.

    cheerio

  3. #23
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    Maybe its because Italy at that time supported us. Maybe because Italy didnt have friendly relations to soviet Russia
    I don't know about that Wehrmacht. Mussolini wasn't a very consistant guy. What about this?

    Letter from Mussolini to Hitler, August 25, 1939 (1)


    FÜHRER: I am replying to your letter which has just been delivered to me by Ambassador won Mackensen.

    (1) Concerning the agreement with Russia, I approve of that completely. His Excellency Marshal Goring will tell you that in the discussion which I had with him last April I stated that a rapprochement between Germany and Russia was necessary to prevent encirclement by the democracies.

    (2) I consider it desirable to try to avoid a break or any deterioration in relations with Japan, since that would result in Japan's return to a position close to the democratic powers. With this in mind, I have telegraphed to Tokyo and it appears that after the first surprise of public opinion passed, a better psychological attitude prevails.

    (3) The Moscow treaty blockades Rumania and can alter the position of Turkey, which accepted the English loan, but which has not yet signed the treaty of alliance. A new attitude on the part of Turkey would upset all the strategic plans of the French and English in the Eastern Mediterranean.

    (4) As regards Poland I have complete understanding for the German position and for the fact that such strained relations cannot continue permanently.

    (5) As for the practical position of Italy, in case of a military collision, my point of view is as follows:

    If Germany attacks Poland and the conflict remains localized, Italy will afford Germany every form of political and economic assistance which is requested.

    If Germany attacks, and Poland's allies open a counterattack against Germany, I want to let you know in advance that it would be better if I did not take the initiative in military activities in view of the present situation of Italian war preparations, which we have repeatedly previously explained to you, Führer, and to Herr von Ribbentrop.

    Our intervention can, therefore, take place at once if Germany delivers to us immediately the military supplies and the raw materials to resist the attack which the French and English especially would direct against us.

    At our meetings the war was envisaged for after 1942 and at such time I would have been ready on land, on sea, and in the air according to the plans which had been arranged.

    I am also of the opinion that the purely military preparations which have already been undertaken and the others which will be entered upon in Europe and Africa will serve to immobilize important French and British forces.

    I consider it my implicit duty as a true friend to tell you the whole truth and inform you about the actual situation in advance. Not to do so might have unpleasant consequences for us all. This is my point of view and since within a short time I must summon the highest governmental bodies of the realm, I ask you to let me know yours as well.

    MUSSOLINI
    Mussolini was a big fan of the Germano/Soviet non-Aggression pact, and from what I have read favored an actual alliance.

  4. #24
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    I would say one of the greatest reasons for Germany's defeat (Because it would be a mistake to blame it all on 'treason') would be that the Reich had a system way too divided and often times in constant struggle with each other. Goering against Doenitz, Himmler against Goering, everyone against Bormann, etc.

    Without a united front, its impossible to win a war of such epic proportions. Not to mention that the enmity between these fellows often caused them to be ridiculously overprotective of their branches and powers, often times causing them to make redundant projects instead of pooling resources for one single project.

  5. #25
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    If our Army was able to achieve the glorious victorys allthough the enemy knew everything in advance, then I wonder how it would have been if they didnt know it?

    Its not like the Allies were perfect and didnt make mistakes or had quarrels in their ranks (just look at Soviet-Russia and the West).

    Without the TREASON everything would have been less dramatic.
    We would have had less casualties and greater resources and also on the field of research we would have been much further.

  6. #26
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    Originally posted by Wehrmacht


    Stop parroting that red Jew-Propaganda! eyes:

    .......b) I dont know where you get that Idea from, that the Germans thought of themselves as "master Race" - I guess thats the communist education System. Making the entire German Leadership responsible for the mistakes of a few Governours and Jerks, is hardly a a way to view history.

    I like how these "Panslavs" constanly ramble about alledged german hatred of slavs, while at the same time we had the best relations with slav countries like Slovakia, Croatia, Bulgaria.
    Its just a communist trick, to disguise the NS-anticommunism as "anti-slavic" ressentiments. Just a trick to get the Slav People to hate Germans.

    They use that EXACT same kind of propaganda in the US! They "teach" you in school that: "Hitler wanted everyone killed who didn't have blond hair and blue eyes, (including other White people) which is hypocritical because Hitler didn't have blond hair and blue eyes either!!!" (How many lies do you count there!?)

    It's almost funny how pathetic the jew's lies are! They spread this "blond/blue or die" lie to people in the US because most White people here have brown hair and not blond! How can people believe that jew trash?? They also sometimes say that Hitler had plans to invade the US, and that he wanted to take over the world, exterminate all non-aryans and fill it up with his "master race" of German Aryans! x_rofl

    After that, they go on to tell you that the allies saved the world from "fascism" and that they are the heros and Germans are the villians.

    Of course, the first thing they tell you is the "tragedies" of the jews in the supposed "death camps"!!!! Remember the 6 million, for the next 6 MILLION YEARS! And on and on and on........ eyes:

  7. #27
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    I know what you are saying. I went to school there myself once - allthough our teacher was a bit more fair and not so drastic.

    The strange part is, that the more time passes these obviously ridiculous american views on history are slowly being adapted in our schools.
    They are calculating, that the old Generation will soon be entierly dead and then they can just spam the schoolbooks with this trash. They have enough leftist-liberal teachers to indoctrinate our youth anyway.

    I hope the day of the Rope comes soon. Because currently there are probably more Arabs and Moslems in Germany that have a posetive view on Hitler, than Germans. Its a scandal!


    88

  8. #28
    Axel Lindholm
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    Yes, it is getting worse and worse. Every school year it is worse. It is pretty sad that a question on one of my exams read, "Hitler was A)The leader of a European Nation B)A lunitac that wanted to kill all non blue eyed people of the world. C)American general D)something I don't remember.

    Anyways, I answered A, and the answer turned out to be B.

  9. #29
    shambler
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    Originally posted by Wehrmacht


    America was allready at War with us. They shaddowed our merchants and openly signaled back home our route, deliberatly letting the RN know where they were so they could sink them.
    I think that its also been proven, that the Americans wouldnt have waited any longer anyway and even declared war on us, rather sooner than later.

    without the treason, we could also have had the A-Bomb and that certainly would have made them give in to a armistice.

    Cheerio

    Im so glad to see you here!!!!!!!
    Yes, the American Navy and I believe the Coast Guard were probably engaging in something very close to acts of war. If I'm remembering corrrectly, the US even occupied Iceland sometime in the summer of 1941, to free up the British garrison there, and for no other real reason. I don't believe Iceland was an independent country at the time, but a dependent territory of somebody, Norway or Denmark. I'm not sure what flimsy diplomatic pretext was used, but I doubt they asked the parent country's permission. I'm guessing that was an act of war by iteself.

    However, having said that, I think the Declaration of War was a huge mistake on Hitler's part. Although Roosevelt had been elected by a comfortable margin in 1940, there was an active and very vocal Isolationist lobby in Congress. (I ignore any sort of American fascist or NS movement. The Lindberghs and Father Coughlins might draw attention, but their following in the sense of any political power was close to non-existent. Enough with them.) Wasn't an American cruiser sunk during September or October 1941, with the loss of life of over 100 American seamen? I'm not criticizing the action as a military event on either side, simply noting that if Roosevelt had felt confident of Congress, he would have PROBABLY sought the Declaration of War then. He did nothing, other than maybe a speech or two.

    I've read some of the conspiracy stuff, that Roosevelt permitted Pearl Harbor to happen, but I don't believe it. I do believe Roosevelt very much wanted into the war, but that he also had amazing political instincts, and realized the USA in general wouldn't have stood for it. I also don't think the crude oil and refined fuel embargo on Japan was an unfair step, although quite a few historians seem to think that by itself triggered the attack. Perhaps it did, but I also don't think they deliberately hamstrung CINCPAC by withholding intelligence reports, or this other stuff that is out there.

    In any event, the Japanese attacked, the USA declared war, but only on the Empire of Japan. The country was full of hate towards the 'Japs' or 'Nips', but not necessarily Germany or Italy. Without Germany and Italy declaring war on the USA I just don't see how Roosevelt could have focused American attention on Europe, as much as he would have liked to. In fact, suppose he denounced the attack. What, then? Okay, perhaps that's a bit much to suppose. But, I fail to see how silence would have been out of place when you're already at war with the USSR and Britain.

    As it was, the USA deployed its resources around 80% to Europe, 20% to the Pacific, possibly skewed even more towards Europe. (Although it must cost a great deal to build and maintain a carrier fleet...I'd have to look into this part.) The Pacific theater was not even a true second front, in my view. A lot of Americans were in fact unhappy about this allocation of resources, but were reluctant to criticize, since after all, there was a war on and Roosevelt was the leader.

    I'd love to hear an opposing view, that Congress -- particularly the Senate -- was in fact of a mind to declare war on Germany, especially in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. Everything I've read indicates to me exactly the opposite, that the Senate leadership was rather fed up with Roosevelt and in no mind to go to war with Germany. If I'm wrong, I'll cheerfully eat my words.

    ***
    I don't care if it's probably an apocryphal quote. x_p It's cool, and the German leadership would have done well to heed it.

    I fear that all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant, and fill it with a desire for vengeance.

    ~~Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto~~

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    Originally posted by Wehrmacht
    I know what you are saying. I went to school there myself once - allthough our teacher was a bit more fair and not so drastic.

    The strange part is, that the more time passes these obviously ridiculous american views on history are slowly being adapted in our schools.
    They are calculating, that the old Generation will soon be entierly dead and then they can just spam the schoolbooks with this trash. They have enough leftist-liberal teachers to indoctrinate our youth anyway.

    I hope the day of the Rope comes soon. Because currently there are probably more Arabs and Moslems in Germany that have a posetive view on Hitler, than Germans. Its a scandal!


    88
    Yeah, I read that 1 in 4 babies born in Brussels is arabic!! :eek: :curse

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