Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 35

Thread: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

  1. #21
    Keeps your Whites Whiter.
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    SuuT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Subrace
    SkandoNordid/Nordicised Faelid
    Gender
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic MeritAristocracy
    Religion
    Heiðinn
    Posts
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: AW: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

    Quote Originally Posted by Taras Bulba
    One interesting irony of Nietzsche is that he attacked Christianity as upholding slave morality; yet had nothing but praise for Jesus Christ, even considering him a model for his ubermensch.

    Absurd. Jesus was considered "noble" only in the most ironic sense. He repeatedly refered to him as "that Jesus" Mary as "the little Jewess." "..nothing but praise for Jesus Christ(?)--Nietzsche said, ironically, of Jesus: "Noble enough was he to recant" and, that Jesus' demand to be loved was "nefarious." I could go on and on.

    Another irony is how many German admire him, despite the fact he had utter contempt for his own nation.
    Well, we hurt the ones we love the most, no?--Nietzsche believed that it was exactly the German's of his day were entitled to breed the Mandarin caste for Europa! Besides, did he NOT have the right to hold great contempt for a back-sliding people who had not yet fallen into the abyss? Nietzsche's contempt stemmed from what Germany had become: "the newspaper reading demi-monde of the spirit (N)." Germany had undergone a self-subversive capitulation in that it had, by his time, shown Philosophical exegis that led nowhere but to a passive nihilism; and an imprinting of effete prolepsis. Which to Nietzsche, and we Germanics that give homage to him, is most worthy of contempt directed toward a people capable of so much. He looked at Germany as a father would look at a son who was 'wasting his talent.'

  2. #22
    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Friday, March 25th, 2016 @ 07:28 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celt Australian
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordic
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Victoria Victoria
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Age
    33
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Guerilla Philosopher
    Politics
    Aristotelian Nationalist
    Religion
    Roman Catholic
    Posts
    1,811
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Re: AW: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

    I'm suprised one is capable of having 'final thoughts' on Nietzsche.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  3. #23
    Keeps your Whites Whiter.
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    SuuT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Subrace
    SkandoNordid/Nordicised Faelid
    Gender
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic MeritAristocracy
    Religion
    Heiðinn
    Posts
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: AW: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer
    I'm suprised one is capable of having 'final thoughts' on Nietzsche.
    Exactly. Anyone who does truly understand Nietzsche understands that with the death of (G)od (ABRAHAM's God!) 'being' as it has hitherto been understood dies as well. One is immersed in the flux. That one can have the hubris to claim finality to anything is misguided indeed: a very 'youthful' notion; amusing as well.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    9
    Thanked in
    9 Posts

    Re: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

    Nietzsche is certainly an important philosopher for *Pan-European* nationalists.

    He is *not* an ideologue though, so do not expect a kind of straightforward manifesto.

    As a philosopher he recognised the necessary ambiguities and contradictions which always spring up in life when we begin to think *deeply*.

    That Nietzsche inspired Mussolini & Hitler should be enough of a recommendation for us.

    From this perspective we might want to slice German philosophy from Schopenhauer to Nietzsche & then to Heidegger.

    As regards the specific 'doctrines' mentioned, I will add;

    Slave Morality: We must be strong enough to adopt its antithesis: Master Morality. This entails an absolute cruelty and ruthlessness that is hard for the majority to even imagine, let alone stomach. But it will be utlimately *necessary*.

    The Jews were in a unique position to develop Slave Morality as they had only their priestly caste left.
    It is not true that he only had praise for Jesus, although he blamed the Jew Paul for Christianity in the main. He wound up calling Jesus an "idiot" in his book 'Antichrist' for good measure.

    As for the Germans, he did not regard the Germans of his day to be the purer race that Tacitus described some 2,000 years before. He also disliked their tendency towards a puritanical Christianity in his time, as well as the trend to democracy in Bismarck's Prussia.

    His comments on the 'purity of Jews' was meant as a jibe at the Germans of his day who were breeding down in his opinion [to Nietzsche, for one class to breed with another was a down-breeding].

    The 'Will to Power' doctrine is more questionable as a globalised metaphysics.
    Heidegger develops this side of Nietzsche's thought into a full-blown Metaphysics though. I doubt if this is a direction that Nietzsche would've been happy with - although *we* might like it!

    The eternal return is not easy - but then it is not meant to be; it is *the* test for entrance into Nietzsche's Zarathustrian philosophy.

    Idealism; I think Nietzsche importantly showed that idealism is largely self-defeating if it is not subject to constant revision.
    That brings us to the Dionysian/Apollonian opposition. He revised this, making the Apollonian incorporated/submerged into the vaster Dionysian world-view.
    But here as with everything, he did not rest content with this world-view.

    As I said, if we learn anything from Nietzsche, it is the need to keep constantly revising your world-view.

    For a philosopher, Nietzsche is very readable, and some of his best books are quite short ['Beyond Good and Evil', 'Twilight of the Idols', 'The Antichrist', for e.g.,]
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, March 6th, 2006 at 09:25 AM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  5. #25
    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Friday, March 25th, 2016 @ 07:28 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celt Australian
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordic
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Victoria Victoria
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Age
    33
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Guerilla Philosopher
    Politics
    Aristotelian Nationalist
    Religion
    Roman Catholic
    Posts
    1,811
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Re: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Nietzsche is certainly an important philosopher for *Pan-European* nationalists.

    He is *not* an ideologue though, so do not expect a kind of straightforward manifesto.
    Of course. Nietzsche's thought seems to require thinking in itself in order to comprehend - it's not 'systematic'... though it is to those who think 'deeper'. Which in itself is an exercise in thinking.

    As a philosopher he recognised the necessary ambiguities and contradictions which always spring up in life when we begin to think *deeply*.
    Agreed.

    That Nietzsche inspired Mussolini & Hitler should be enough of a recommendation for us.

    From this perpsective we might want to slice German philosophy from Schopenhauer to Nietzsche & then to Heidegger.
    Not merely German philosophy: but also almost all of postmodernist philosophy.

    As regards the specific 'doctrines' mentioned, I will add;

    Slave Morality: We must be strong enough to adopt its antithesis: Master Morality. This entails an absolute cruelty and ruthlessness that is hard for the majority to even imagine, let alone stomach. But it will be utlimately *necessary*.
    Far more than that: slave morality is not merely a morality, but a mode of thought that defines 'the people'. Thinking one's self beyond that, not bending to trends and mass thought structure, to 'go one's own way' is the master morality - he is free of the slaves, not merely in their political and economic position, but from being 'free' from being determined by his relationship to them. The slaves, on the other hand, are determined by their relationship to the masters; hence ressentiment.

    The Jews
    were in a unique position to develop Slave Morality as they had only their preistly caste left.
    It is not true that he only had praise for Jesus, although he blamed the Jew Paul for Christianity in the main. He wound up calling Jesus an "idiot" in his book 'Antichrist' for good measure.
    Aye. Not merely for Christianity, but for their institutionalisation of the world-redeeming, the messianist.

    As for the Germans, he did not regard the Germans of his day to be the purer race that Tacitus described some 2,000 years before. He also disliked their tendency towards a puritanical Christianity in his time, as well as the trend to democracy in Bismarck's Prussia.

    His comments on the 'purity of Jews' was meant as a jibe at the Germans of his day who were breeding down in his opinion [to Nietzsche, for one class to breed with another was a down-breeding].
    True.

    The 'Will to Power' doctrine is more questionable as a globalised metaphysics.
    Heidegger develops this side of Nietzsche's thought into a full-blown Metaphysics though. I doubt if this is a direction that Nietzsche would've been happy with - although *we* might like it!
    Of course. Here I highly recommend Nietzsche and Philosophy by Gilles Deleuze. Deleuze's interpretation of Nietzsche's metaphysics is not phenomenological, as Heidegger's was. His is, IMO, more 'true' to Nietzsche: he defined the will to power as the genetic (i.e. generative) principle which connects the potential to the kinetic. Here is where Heraclites' metaphysical doctrine of becoming fits with Nietzsche's own. Which fits with his interpretation of Nietzsche's...

    The eternal return is not easy - but then it is not meant to be; it is *the* test for entrance into Nietzsche's Zarathustrian philosophy.
    Deleuze's own interpretation of the eternal recurrance is that the substance of the world, forces, can be both positive and negative (negative meaning: turn themselves against becoming, which is life, positive meaning, affirmitive). Life being continuous becoming, negative forces cannot repeat themselves. This functions as an ethical principle: would you affirm this repetition of forces for eternity, the forces that constitute you. As per Deleuze's metaphysics I instead believe (in contrast to yourself) that Nietzsche's eternal recurrance is the finale of Nietzsche's philosophy.

    Idealism
    ; I think Nietzsche importantly showed that idealism is largely self-defeating if it is not subject to constant revision.
    Agreed - partly. Instead of world-denying, messianist ideals (the true-/non place, the utopia), the necessity of recognising who I am, where I am, all that has come before, this must occur because it is optimal/right. Living in the world, as opposed to saving it, redeeming it, denying it - improving it.

    That brings us to the Dionysian/Apollonian opposition. He revised this, making the Apollonian incorporated/submerged into the vaster Dionysian world-view.
    But here as with everything, he did not rest content with this world-view.

    As I said, if we learn anything from Nietzsche, it is the need to keep constantly revising your world-view.

    For a philosopher, Nietzsche is very readable, and some of his best books are quite short ['Beyond Good and Evil', 'Twilight of the Idols', 'The Antichrist', for e.g.,]
    Definetly agree with all just quoted.

    Welcome back, Moody. We've missed you
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    9
    Thanked in
    9 Posts

    Re: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer
    Gilles Deleuze defined the will to power as the genetic (i.e. generative) principle which connects the potential to the kinetic. Here is where Heraclitus' metaphysical doctrine of becoming fits with Nietzsche's own. Which fits with his interpretation of Nietzsche's...
    But Heraclitus balanced this kinetic principle with the notion of there being a law which governs the regularities of kinetic flux - those 'eternal returns of the same'.
    Likewise in Nietzsche, there is also the hammer of Being which stamps itself upon Becoming.
    So neither Heraclitus or Nietzsche posit pure, untrammeled, flux.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 07:11 PM
    Country
    Other Other
    Gender
    Posts
    117
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Vedr: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

    How can you use Nietzsche's words in favor of Nationalism, of all things? Nietzsche was opposed to the very idea of nations and he despised any form of Nationalism.
    Also, where in Nietzsche actual works do you see outspoken anti-Semitism? Clearly, he hated monotheistic religions, but the way I see it, he was not a racist or racialist.
    Are you reading Elisabeth Forster's edited version of her brother's books?

  8. #28
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    9
    Thanked in
    9 Posts

    Re: Vedr: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

    Quote Originally Posted by dzingtse
    How can you use Nietzsche's words in favor of Nationalism, of all things? Nietzsche was opposed to the very idea of nations and he despised any form of Nationalism.
    Also, where in Nietzsche actual works do you see outspoken anti-Semitism? Clearly, he hated monotheistic religions, but the way I see it, he was not a racist or racialist.
    Are you reading Elisabeth Forster's edited version of her brother's books?
    Actually, Nietzsche's sister made *more* of her brothers' work available to the public, as she founded the Nietzsche Archive and undertook to provide a complete edition of his works.
    Indeed, without her activities we would have less Nietzsche, not more.
    Also, the Archive got no funding during the Weimar period [nor did it get any after 1945 from the Communists], but the National Socialist government generously funded it, while Mussolini presented the Archive with a priceless ancient Greek statue of Dionysos!

    Nietzsche was a racial thinker, and therefore regarded race as of vital importance in human affairs [see his Zarathustra, his Beyond Good & Evil, his Genealogy of Morals for examples, passim].

    In terms of anti-Semitism, look to his contention that Slave Morality was invented by the Jews [although he certainly came down hard on Christian-anti-Semitism, seeing it as a way of sneaking Slave Morality in by the back door].

    He did despise petty nationalism, that is true. This is because he expounded a pan-European nationalism instead and thought that petty nationalism would be destructive to Europe [he was prophetic in this].

    Of course, before his break with Wagner, he shared that composer's views on the Jews and German nationalism as well.

    But the point goes deeper.
    Fascist philosophy evolved from out of the ideas of Nietzsche & a few other philosophers such as Heidegger, Spengler, Hegel, Plato & Heraclitus;- so there is a very profound philosophical basis to fascism.

    As I said before, don't expect Nietzsche or Hegel or Plato to provide a 'point by point' fascist ideology!

    This is because ideology differs from philosophy, the former being the application of certain philosophical ideas to political programmes.

    All philosophers create contradictions [and Nietzsche revelled in that], so no philosopher's work can be used 'hook line and sinker' in an ideology; there will always be selection.
    And selection is no bad thing - indeed, it is the inability to select that marks out the Modern Age in all its paralysis of action.

    An Adolf Hitler rightly seized upon ideas he found in Kant, in Schopenhauer and in Nietzsche, and he used them as the basis for his own political ideology. That is how it is always done; one creates an ideology in that very fashion, usually in the crucible of debate.

    Going back to Nietzsche's ideas, I would say he was right about petty nationalism which can create civil wars and therefore destroy the Folk.
    I believe he was right to be sophisticated when it came to anti-Semitism, and to be one of the first to point out in detail the Semitic aspects of much of Christianity.

    As a racial thinker he touched on both the spiritual & biological aspects of race at the same time - another important distinction.

    That Nietzsche's thought was taken further in a fascist direction by Heidegger & Spengler suggests the importance of his iconoclasm [Spengler says that he had only two teachers: Nietzsche & Goethe].

    Going on to a general point; if I were to ask you what well-known philosophers you would use as an underpinning to nationalism, I'm sure I could find certain aspects of their thought that may contradict that.
    But this is to be expected, as I have already said; real philosophers think through every question to its opposite side.
    To a philosopher, contradictions are not sins but the hallmarks of rigorous thought.

    It is up to ideologists to pick from the rich field that they provide with their fertilising thought.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  9. #29
    Senior Member Airmanareiks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Last Online
    Thursday, February 3rd, 2011 @ 07:09 PM
    Ethnicity
    Icelandic
    Gender
    Age
    51
    Posts
    176
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

    Quote Originally Posted by Ventrue View Post
    Eternal recurrence - Well, you can't expect one man to get everything right. Here Nietzsche borders on the religious, in that he doesn't understand how the universe works. This is not philosophy. It can be discarded without hurting the rest of his work.e.

    I believe N like eternal recurrence because of they way a person reacts to it.

    For the slave or nihlist, eternally reliving your life is Hel.

    For the superman, it is heaven.

    The superman would increase his/her power in each new life, whereas the lesser will suffer and die.

    This is like aryan reincarnation. Ancient Germans believed in reincarnation. By righteous deeds you evolve your soul into a higher life form, caste, from pure material being Giant/Jotun to the pure God caste of spirit/mind. Eternal reoccurance is like Mundilfari or the world mill swastika grinding life so that new higher life forms arise.


    The breeding of the superman occures with eternal reoccurnce, because the overman says "once more" while others say "no more" so only the superman lives on.

  10. #30
    Senior Member albion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Last Online
    Wednesday, August 5th, 2009 @ 03:44 AM
    Ethnicity
    Swiss-German
    Ancestry
    Alsace
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Oregon Oregon
    Gender
    Politics
    Creativity
    Posts
    25
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: My final thoughts on Nietzsche

    http://www.stevencscheer.com/solomon.htm

    >>It is, in fact, because "what Nietzsche really said gets lost in a maze of falsehoods, misinterpretations, and exaggerations" (xiii-xiv) that Solomon and Higgins have written this book. Their intention has been to debunk much that has come to be associated with Nietzsche, both by his allies and by his enemies. The book's first chapter (cleverly entitled "Rumors: Wine, Women, and Wagner") devotes itself to a telling counter to no less than 30 misconceptions engendered by Nietzsche's thought and reputation. Solomon and Higgins convincingly show us that Nietzsche wasn't crazy, that he didn't hate women, that he wasn't a (proto-)Nazi, that he didn't hate Jews (his break with Wagner was, in fact, due in part to the latter's anti-Semitism), that he wasn't a nihilist, that he didn't hate Christianity (although his criticism of Christianity on the grounds that it rejects this world and inspires resentment and self-hatred is strong, of course). And the foregoing is a list of just six of the 30 "rumors" about Nietzsche that are, according to Solomon and Higgins, not really true.

    >>The follow-up to this great debunking chapter is a logical next move in What Nietzsche Really Said in that it explores with us the how of reading Nietzsche - this ingenious philosopher who was as much an artist as a philosopher and who, as an artist, was as much given to paradox and irony, to metaphor and apparent self-contradiction, as any poetic genius worthy of his or her fame. Though not a nihilist or even a relativist, Nietzsche clearly rejects absolutism on the grounds that "rigid statements do not reflect our world's reality," and that "any statement held as dogma is really a prejudice" (56). For Solomon and Higgins Nietzsche's "perspectivism" is a healthy antidote to the erroneous view that truths are unchanging and absolute. Even Nietzsche's own "illuminating statements" may "fail to tell us the entire story. It is always worth our while to reexamine, to see if we may have missed some feature of value in an object, a person, or a situation" (57). As far as Nietzsche is concerned, we can never be sure that we are absolutely right. If we are so convinced, we are much more likely to be absolutely wrong.

    http://www.amazon.com/What-Nietzsche...id=1167873162/

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: Wednesday, July 11th, 2012, 02:02 AM
  2. Hitler's Final Thoughts On WW2 ...
    By SaxonPagan in forum Modern Age & Contemporary History
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Saturday, October 16th, 2010, 01:04 AM
  3. Replies: 13
    Last Post: Thursday, November 20th, 2003, 11:44 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •