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Thread: English, Dutch, German : more Celtic than Germanic

  1. #31
    Senior Member Vestmannr's Avatar
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    Re: English, Dutch, German : more celtic than germanic

    Its true - the Classical world (Greek/Roman) had the most difficult time differentiating Celt, Gaul, and German (and sometimes even 'Scythian'). What we call Germanic and Celtic today are in fact recent cultures (late Classical) that grew out of a common Bronze Age/Early Iron Age super-culture. In fact, it seems that it was far harder to tell Celt and German apart than from any other 'barbarians' (or even Greeks or Romans.) In any case, I don't believe there was ever a time where there were sharp and clear lines dividing German and Celt (linguistically, genetically, phenotypically) - more a series of gradations. Consider especially the Belgae and Franks and how difficult it has always been for academics to label them as being more 'Germanic' or more 'Celtic' (and those who have, have done so by emphasizing a single characteristic - usually language.)
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  2. #32
    Account Inactive nurnberg's Avatar
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    Re: English, Dutch, German : more celtic than germanic

    Celtic is linguistic and cultural.
    Celts overnight became Romans and some Romans became Celts.

    Nothing biologically rooted that I can see there.

    That some groups today identify as Celts and that they have a coincident biological ancestral component is irrelevant really.

    You have people in France who are descendants of Phoenicians.

    If one wishes to identify Celts as being equivalent to Germanic I suppose we can do the same for Italic or even Balkan groups.


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    Senior Member AryanAmerican's Avatar
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    Re: English, Dutch, German : more celtic than germanic

    Quote Originally Posted by cbvnm
    according to dna studies the English, Dutch and Germans have more Celtic ancestors than germanic ancestors.

    the first inhabitants of England, Holland and Germany were mostly Celts. When the germanic tribes from Scandinavia/North-Germany invaded these area`s they spread their germanic languages but did not replaceme the ancient celtic populations.

    Scandinavia = mostly germanic blood

    England, Holland, Germany = mostly celtic blood

    as you see languages and race dont have to go hand in hand
    Ive read something similar to this also..the one I read said that the majority of Germans,Austrians,French,and Swiss were actually from the Celtic/Alpine branch of the Indo Europeans..and that the North Germans,Scandinavians and Danes were from the Teutonic/Nordic branch..Dont know if it was true or not but thats What I read..and it was noted that some Celts spoke Germanic languages and some spoke Gaelic type languages..

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    Re: English, Dutch, German : more celtic than germanic

    Its also quite obvious when looking at the populations, especially the English and Dutch generally have much darker hair than Scandinavians but also the Germans are darkerhaired than Scandinavians.

    Scandinavians are the real Germanics

    The Dutch, English and Southern-Germans are predominant of celtic blood with a minority of germanic blood

    Northern-Germans have more germanic blood. An estimate would be 50 % celtic - 50 % germanic for them
    Well, why do you ascribe dark hair to the celts?
    southern germans are alpines, who are indigenous, where as the kelts
    were invading indo-europeans. Upper paleolithics, too, are indigenous.
    The ethnic Kelts were skandonordid, their hair colour was blond/red/light brown . Keltic is also an ethnolinguistic group, not a race. The same goes for Germanic.

  5. #35
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    Re: English, Dutch, German : more celtic than germanic

    Quote Originally Posted by herr georg
    Well, why do you ascribe dark hair to the celts?
    southern germans are alpines, who are indigenous, where as the kelts
    were invading indo-europeans. Upper paleolithics, too, are indigenous.
    The ethnic Kelts were skandonordid, their hair colour was blond/red/light brown . Keltic is also an ethnolinguistic group, not a race. The same goes for Germanic.
    I was about to say that. Nevermind that the Gauls (Celts/Keltoi is how the Greeks called them as opposed to Gaelic, Gallic, Galatians etc..) were always depicted as tall / blonde haired.

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    Re: English, Dutch, German : more celtic than germanic

    I wonder who Germans are. Germans were the Celts, right? Because I have learnt the Gaulish-English dictionary in the website. Between Gaulish and German words are almost same words.

    Look at Gaulish-German-Latin words:

    Gaulish
    nei (no)
    ni (not)
    nu (new)
    sego (victory)
    patír, ater (father)
    ya, eo (yes)
    mamm (mother)
    famelo (family)

    German
    nein
    nicht
    neu
    sieg
    Vater
    ja
    Mutter
    Familie


    Latin
    non
    ne
    novius
    victoria
    pater
    ita vero
    mater
    familia


    Touto- is but a Gaulish word for teuto-. Teuto- means people or ‘people, a tribe’. Teuto- is NOT a Germanic word and teuto- is a Gaulish. They called themselves Teutons. Do you know Teutonic is which Germanic or Celtic (or Gaulish) word? What to say for questions about wonder who Germans are. They're perhaps Celtic tribes? Cimbri and Teuton come from North Germania (Denmark). Cimbri looks like 'Cymraeg' is meaning Welsh. Cimbri is also Celtic. Their oldest language was closely from Britiannae languages. This suggest as both Belgic and British languages move to British Isles. Welsh and Breton are almost as same words.




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    Re: English, Dutch, German : more celtic than germanic

    I think that Germanic languages are from both Celtic and Latin words.

  8. #38
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    Re: English, Dutch, German : more celtic than germanic

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfSSangel

    They're perhaps Celtic tribes? Cimbri and Teuton come from North Germania (Denmark). Cimbri looks like 'Cymraeg' is meaning Welsh. Cimbri is also Celtic. Their oldest language was closely from Britiannae languages. This suggest as both Belgic and British languages move to British Isles. Welsh and Breton are almost as same words.



    Tuatha is the Irish word for people or tribe. In the Gaelic folklore the rulers of Ireland when the Gaels invaded from Spain were the known as the "Tuatha de Danann" or "the people of the goddess Danu". Denmark is suposedly called after Danu, so "Tuatha de Danann" could perhaps be interpreted as "the people of Denmark". I find it an interestng speculation anyway.

    After the Gaels conquered Ireland theTuatha de, we are told, "disappeared into the fairy world" which is a sort of parallel world where they live unseen and can spy and play tricks on people whose actions displease them. The entrances to the fairy world are found beneath the ancient earth mounds which the Tuatha de Danann had created.

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    Re: English, Dutch, German : more celtic than germanic

    Quote Originally Posted by The Horned God
    Tuatha is the Irish word for people or tribe. In the Gaelic folklore the rulers of Ireland when the Gaels invaded from Spain were the known as the "Tuatha de Danann" or "the people of the goddess Danu". Denmark is suposedly called after Danu, so "Tuatha de Danann" could perhaps be interpreted as "the people of Denmark". I find it an interestng speculation anyway.

    After the Gaels conquered Ireland theTuatha de, we are told, "disappeared into the fairy world" which is a sort of parallel world where they live unseen and can spy and play tricks on people whose actions displease them. The entrances to the fairy world are found beneath the ancient earth mounds which the Tuatha de Danann had created.
    Tuatha de Danann gave it to North Germanic is called Denmark by the Gaels?

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    Senior Member The Black Prince's Avatar
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    Re: English, Dutch, German : more celtic than germanic

    Germanic, Keltic, Slavic and Latin languages are all from Indo-European stock, most of the look alike terms are because of this.
    Example a thread of Bismark about Keltic and Germanic:

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=45226

    However they furtherdeveloped apart from eachother thats why they have different names. About Protogermanic, Theudanaz made a thread:

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=36956

    In later times they influenced eachother e.g during the Roman conquest for instance and/or the 'Volksverhuizing' and/or the desire of Renaissance higher social class to speak Latin languages.
    No reason to think that NW-Europeans are descendants of the Kelts , genetic research has already proven that peoples from Central-Europe or Ireland are quitte different in genetic makeup than people from Northern Germany, Netherlands, Flemish or Scandinavia.

    Thread of Westprussian about Germanic/Keltic (although one should let out certain parts of Norway):

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=45865

    Parsifal made a thread about a genetic research under the Flemish, they were Germanic:

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=46926



    I would here by kindly ask the Skadi moderators to close this thread.
    Last edited by The Black Prince; Monday, February 13th, 2006 at 10:44 PM. Reason: added some politeness :)

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