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Thread: English, Dutch, German : more Celtic than Germanic

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    Post English, Dutch, German : more Celtic than Germanic

    according to dna studies the English, Dutch and Germans have more Celtic ancestors than germanic ancestors.

    the first inhabitants of England, Holland and Germany were mostly Celts. When the germanic tribes from Scandinavia/North-Germany invaded these area`s they spread their germanic languages but did not replaceme the ancient celtic populations.

    Scandinavia = mostly germanic blood

    England, Holland, Germany = mostly celtic blood

    as you see languages and race dont have to go hand in hand

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    Any proof for this?
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    ofcourse,

    ``A new survey of Y chromosomes in the British Isles suggests that the Anglo-Saxons failed to leave as much of a genetic stamp on the UK as history books imply1.

    Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Vikings and Normans invaded Britain repeatedly between 50 BC and AD 1050. Many historians ascribe much of the British ancestry to the Anglo-Saxons because their written legacy overshadows that of the Celts.

    But the Y chromosomes of the regions tell a different story. "The Celts weren't pushed to the fringes of Scotland and Wales; a lot of them remained in England and central Ireland," says study team member David Goldstein, of University College London. This is surprising: the Anglo-Saxons reputedly colonized southern England heavily.
    ``

    from http://www.nature.com/nsu/030616/030616-15.html



    and :

    http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/capelli2_CB.pdf

    http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publication...v290_p1155.pdf



    Its also quite obvious when looking at the populations, especially the English and Dutch generally have much darker hair than Scandinavians but also the Germans are darkerhaired than Scandinavians.

    Scandinavians are the real Germanics

    The Dutch, English and Southern-Germans are predominant of celtic blood with a minority of germanic blood

    Northern-Germans have more germanic blood. An estimate would be 50 % celtic - 50 % germanic for them

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbvnm
    according to dna studies the English, Dutch and Germans have more Celtic ancestors than germanic ancestors.

    the first inhabitants of England, Holland and Germany were mostly Celts. When the germanic tribes from Scandinavia/North-Germany invaded these area`s they spread their germanic languages but did not replaceme the ancient celtic populations.

    Scandinavia = mostly germanic blood

    England, Holland, Germany = mostly celtic blood

    as you see languages and race dont have to go hand in hand

    Let me guess, you're "1juice" from SF?!

    I still hold that what you are calling "Keltic" is actually Upper Paleolithic....and these folks were in NW Europe long before any "Kelts" arrived on the scene.

    BTW, I'm 'Ingleric' at SF in case you hadn't already figured that one out.

    cheers

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    ingleric :

    so you are one of the followers of the theory that Central-West Europe in the paleolithic time was populated by non-aryan people and that the Celts were immigrants and mixed with these non-aryans?

    I dont believe in this theory

    According to me the Celts have lived in Central-West Europe since the paleolithic, just like the Slavs have lived in Eastern-Europe since the paleolithic. The Celts migrated to the iberian peninsula when the ice was covering great parts of europe. Just like the Slavs migrated to the Ukraine when the ices were covering great parts of Europe.

    The Celts are the ancient West-Europeans
    The Slavs are the ancient East-Europeans
    The Germanics are the ancient North-Europeans
    and the Romans are the ancient south-europeans (possibly a link to the neolithic immigrants who introduced farming, but this remains guessing)

    Just like all history books imply.

    I dont believe in the so called ``paleolithic pre-aryan people`` myth

    The only non-aryan people that lived in Western-Europe were the iberians of Spain : a swarthy small dark seafaring people. These people also lived in the British isles. Spaniards, Basques and Portuguese still have a little bit of iberian blood, but its minimal. Iberians are almost extinct.

    Even though the Iberians are almost extinct the Basques still speak an Iberian language. The Basque country got overrun by Celts from Central Europe resulting in the Celtiberian culture. Modern day Basques are mainly of Celtic ancestry (Basques are the same as Welsh/Irish etc on the y Chromosome).
    Modern day Basques = Celts that speak an iberian language

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    Hi cbvnm,

    I'm glad that you wrote what you did here. You clarified a few things for me and I wish to thank you.

    I think the problem here is partially (if not wholly) in terminology. While Coon recognized a "Keltic Nordic" sub-race and I use this term from time to time when phenotypic classifications come up, I am more prone to think of Celtic (Keltic) as a cultural/linguistic term. Celtic culture and language did not arrive in western Europe until comparatively late....compared to the people who adopted this material culture and languange, that is. This is what I didn't undertand in all of your posts regarding the 'Celts' of central and western Europe and my major complaint with what you've posted is that which I have already mentioned; that being that the genetic markers common in NW Europe are much older than Celtic culture or language. It seems though that we are speaking of the same thing. What you call "Celtic", I call "Paleolithic"


    "Paleolithic pre-Aryan people myth"

    Hmmmm, I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying, in contrary to what you wrote above, that there were no people in Europe in the Paleolithic or, that the folk of the Paleolithic were Aryan?

    And what do you mean by "Aryan"? Indo-European speakers? Do you attribute the much sought after PIE homeland to continental Europe?

    thanks

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    Celtic as a cultural/linguistic type originated in Switzerland/Austria relatively recently, and did not make it to the British Isles until about 500 BC. The UP Brünns and Atlantid/Mediterranid Picts and Welsh had already been there for some time. Slavs, in the true linguistic-cultural sense, are mesolithic-neolithic. They were Corded/BA and Danubian types who originated in southern Russia/Ukraine and/or western Asia. I don't know what you mean by Paleolithic Slavs. I really haven't seen anything to indicate that Baltids are that old, either.

    It's also incorrect to apply the British findings to the Dutch and Germans as a whole. I am not very familiar with Belgian and Dutch anthropology, so I will defer to Frans on that. However, I know that only southern Germany is significantly/predominantly Celtic. Northern Germany is far less than 50% Celtic ancestrally.

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    The Celts have lived in Western-Europe since the paleolithic. Therefore ofcourse the Celtic languages also exists in Western-Europe since the paleolithic. And yes the Celts are ofcourse a subgroup of the aryans. The aryans have been in Western-Europe since the paleolithic.

    Its all very simple

    The Celts had many different racial types, but the most common and therefore the typical Celtic look = brown hair, light eyes (blue or green), mesocephalic, tall

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbvnm
    The Celts have lived in Western-Europe since the paleolithic. Therefore ofcourse the Celtic languages also exists in Western-Europe since the paleolithic. And yes the Celts are ofcourse a subgroup of the aryans. The aryans have been in Western-Europe since the paleolithic.

    Its all very simple

    The Celts had many different racial types, but the most common and therefore the typical Celtic look = brown hair, light eyes (blue or green), mesocephalic, tall
    LOL what are your sources on this? You're prepared to discredit centuries of archaeological revelations like La Têne, Hallstatt, Urnfields, etc. based on your simple opinion that Celts are Paleolithic?

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    ``LOL what are your sources on this? You're prepared to discredit centuries of archaeological revelations like La Têne, Hallstatt, Urnfields, etc. based on your simple opinion that Celts are Paleolithic?``

    Halstatt is in Austria
    La Tene (Neuchatel) is in Switzerland

    It is a widely accepted fact in the world that the Celts originated in Central-West Europe (switzerland, austria, france, southern germany, belgium, holland).

    There are no books that claim the Celts were some immigrants from Asia 3000 years ago that migrated to West-Europe and mixed with so called ``paleolithic Europeans``. This sounds like a futuristic fairytale.

    I noticed this fairytale exists on this site as well as on the Stormfront website
    Last edited by cbvnm; Saturday, September 20th, 2003 at 08:40 AM.

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