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Thread: Y and mtDNA Haplogroups Maps of Europe

  1. #11
    Account Inactive nurnberg's Avatar
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    Re: Maps of Y & mtDNA Haplogroups of Europe and the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    Q is arctic, and related to East Asian haplogroups.
    Or possibly the entire interpretation is based on a false premise of common ancestries in the first place. Based on presumptions of Evolution Theory.



  2. #12
    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Re: Maps of Y & mtDNA Haplogroups of Europe and the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Haplotype I
    J - Middle East Arabs almost exclusevely - Eastern Med some.
    This extends all the way to Italy in a large way. I wonder if this is a result of the Ottoman Empire which didn't include Italy but did include much of SE Europe? Maybe SE Europe is the 20% (including recent immigrants of the last 50 years) that are not descended from UP European man?

    I think the ancient Hellenic people were totally European but have been bred out by the western movement of Eastern types over the last 2500 years.

    Greece's President looks totally European:


    but Greece's Prime Minister looks like a Middle Eastern "Armenoid" type:
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    .

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  3. #13
    Account Inactive Scholar's Avatar
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    Re: Maps of Y & mtDNA Haplogroups of Europe and the World

    Na, the Greeks really didn't mix with the Turks during the time of the Ottoman occupation. The Turkish tribes weren't Arab or "Middle Eastern" anyway, they originated from north and East of the Capsian Sea. The Turks using their Timar system took Greek and Balkan boys and brought them to Turkey, but not the other way around. The Greeks have remained unchanged for thousands of years.

  4. #14
    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Re: Maps of Y & mtDNA Haplogroups of Europe and the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Scholar
    Na, the Greeks really didn't mix with the Turks during the time of the Ottoman occupation. The Turkish tribes weren't Arab or "Middle Eastern" anyway, they originated from north and East of the Capsian Sea. The Turks using their Timar system took Greek and Balkan boys and brought them to Turkey, but not the other way around. The Greeks have remained unchanged for thousands of years.
    Then how do you explain Marker J?
    http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.p...0&d=1133582658

    Found from Persia to Mideast Arabs to Georgia-Armenia to Turkey to Italy. Are we to assume that somehow it just jumped over Greece?
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    Member Galaico's Avatar
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    Re: Maps of Y & mtDNA Haplogroups of Europe and the World

    Quote Originally Posted by tinman
    Then how do you explain Marker J?
    http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.p...0&d=1133582658

    Found from Persia to Mideast Arabs to Georgia-Armenia to Turkey to Italy. Are we to assume that somehow it just jumped over Greece?
    20% of the Italian men carry the J haplotype, and almost 10% of the Southern Portuguese men. Where there any Turks in Italy or South Portugal?

    It didn't just jump over Greece. The J, K, and E3b haplotypes were brought to some parts of Europe by the Neolithic agriculturalists 8,000 years ago, who came from the Middle East, when it was still White. 8,000 years ago, Turks were still living in Central Asia.

    By the way, the J haplotype is closely related to the I haplotype, which was brought to Europe by populations coming from... yes, THE MIDDLE EAST, 20,000 years ago, and is identified with the Nordic population of Europe. In fact, the G, H, I, J and K haplotypes are all mutations of the F haplotype.

    PD: Though it may look like my haplotype is not J, that is only shared by 2% of the Spanish men.

  6. #16
    Account Inactive Scholar's Avatar
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    Re: Maps of Y & mtDNA Haplogroups of Europe and the World

    Ha, is there a definite that the J marker originated in the Middle East? For all we know, it originated in Greece and was spread by the Greeks.

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    Re: Maps of Y & mtDNA Haplogroups of Europe and the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Scholar
    Ha, is there a definite that the J marker originated in the Middle East? For all we know, it originated in Greece and was spread by the Greeks.
    Haplogroup J played a crucial role in modern human development. These were the first farmers, a linage which originated in the Fertile Crescent some 10,000 to 15,000 years ago during the time of the Neolithic revolution. These people's success, and extensive migrations, eventually led to the rise of modern, settled communities and cities. This haplogroup is characterized by two important sub-groups, J and J2.

    Haplogroup J, which is characterized by the marker 12f2.1, appears at its highest frequencies in the Middle East, North Africa, and Ethiopia, and its lowest frequencies in Europe, where it is observed exclusively in the Mediterranean area. It is representative of to distinct migratory events from the Middle East into North Africa. The most recent of the two migratory episodes is likely the result of the diffusion of the Arab people out of that region and accross the Mediterranean into parts of the Iberian peninsula.

    Fruitful farming spurred growing populations and expasion throughout much of the Mediterranean world over the past 10,000 years. M172, the marker which defines J2, and important and closely related subset of J, is found in southern Europe aswell as the Middle East. In southern Italy it occurs at frequencies of 20 percent, and in southern Spain it appears at 10 percent. Successive migrations also carried these peoples through the river valleys of central Asia and into northern India.

    The traces of this linage's ancient past can be seen not only in genes but on the ground at sites like Jericho (Tell el-Sultan), one of the world's settled oldest agrarian societies. After thousands of years of continuous occupation, we can trace the growth of Jericho and its people in a pattern repeated throughout the world of M172.

    https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/...hic/atlas.html

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    Maps of Y & mtDNA Haplogroups of Europe and the World

    Haplotype diagram

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    Senior Member Vetinari's Avatar
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    Re: Maps of Y & mtDNA Haplogroups of Europe and the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Haplotype I
    However, it is very interesting to note that the I group apparently pre-date R1a and R1b significantly.
    How do you come to this conclusion? According to Semino, M173 has been in Europe for longer than M170.

    http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publication...v290_p1155.pdf
    Jesus loves Jews and Muslims just the way they are. Cthulhu thinks they need ketchup.

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    Re: Maps of Y & mtDNA Haplogroups of Europe and the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffersonian
    All Europeans without exception have ancestors who lived in the Middle East within the last 12,000 years.
    What evidence is there to back up this statement?
    Jesus loves Jews and Muslims just the way they are. Cthulhu thinks they need ketchup.

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