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Thread: The Kashubian-Pomeranian folk

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    Post The Kashubian-Pomeranian folk


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    Welcome to the forum.

    Yes, many Kashubs look very Nordic. But many also look East Baltic.

    The most Nordic part of Poland is, IMO, Wielkopolska.

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    Post most Nordic part of Poland

    I do not know on which sources you base. The most blond part of Poland is evidently Kashubia-Pomerania. According to Prussian statistic only 3 counties in northern Poznan province (Wagrowiec, Szubin, Oborniki) was equally blond as Pomerania/West Prussia (over 40% of pure blonds, and less than 10% of brunets). Also the average height grow from south to north.
    Regards from norda


    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    Welcome to the forum.

    Yes, many Kashubs look very Nordic. But many also look East Baltic.

    The most Nordic part of Poland is, IMO, Wielkopolska.

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    Welcome, norda!

    Very nice pictures, and interesting information about these folk.

    @ Polak - do you know if this "Wielkopolska" has any relation to the area where the "Wielbark" Gothic culture appeared?

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    Post Wielbark vs Wielkopolska

    The name Wielkopolska means Greater Poland (heart of Poland) and have nothing to do with the name Wielbark (after the archeological site at Wielbark). Gothic Wielbark culture was a common in northern Poland and included also a northern part of Wielkopolska/ Poznan province. There are some links to the gothic culture in Pomerania- of course archeological and also in the names of places like Oksywie, Hela etc. Moreover the area and folk around Tczew- Starogard on the south of Gdansk have had a common name Kociewie (Gociewie) still.

    some pictures of gothic stone circles in Pomerania:
    http://www.zk-p.pl/xoops/modules/mya...cat.php?cid=34

    Wielbark culture info:
    http://www.muzarp.poznan.pl/archweb/gazociag/title5.htm


    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Welcome, norda!

    Very nice pictures, and interesting information about these folk.

    @ Polak - do you know if this "Wielkopolska" has any relation to the area where the "Wielbark" Gothic culture appeared?

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    Quote Originally Posted by norda
    I do not know on which sources you base. The most blond part of Poland is evidently Kashubia-Pomerania. According to Prussian statistic only 3 counties in northern Poznan province (Wagrowiec, Szubin, Oborniki) was equally blond as Pomerania/West Prussia (over 40% of pure blonds, and less than 10% of brunets). Also the average height grow from south to north.
    Regards from norda

    Extreme blondism need not be a Nordic trait, as you may be aware.

    In fact, the blondest populations in Europe are East Baltic, or at least partly East Baltic.

    Nordics, on the other hand, are often dark ashen and brown haired.

    Also, stature in Poland does not have a north-south gradient any longer. It is influenced by socio-economic conditions rather than geography, as latest studies in Poland clearly prove.

    But Wielkopolska has always been one of the tallest regions of Poland anyway.

    The Kashubs strike me as having quite a bit of East Baltic blood, which is not as pronounced in Wielkopolska.

    Mazowsze is also quite a Nordic area of Poland.

    But the really surprising thing for me is how Nordic Bialystock is. It must be one of the fairest and most long-headed cities in the country.

    I have no idea why, as it is in the deep north-east, near the Belarus border.

    Regards

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    But the really surprising thing for me is how Nordic Bialystock is. It must be one of the fairest and most long-headed cities in the country.

    I have no idea why, as it is in the deep north-east, near the Belarus border.

    Regards
    Very interesting, and useful information. If I visit Poland one day, I will go have a look...

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    Visit Belarus too. Its nordisher than Poland, especially Northern Belarus.

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    Post Race structure of South-East Baltic region (1900-1910)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wend
    Visit Belarus too. Its nordisher than Poland, especially Northern Belarus.
    I could not agree with your statement. Your observations are right-N.Belarus has small brunet minority -6-7% even comparing to other groups but pure blonds are not as common as in Lithuania, or N.Poland. CI is rather similar. Of course N.Belorusians are strongly depigmenteted but it is mostly due strong Finish (East Baltic?) influence. See: 9. Strong finish feature of snub/flat nose (and blond?) comes from the north-east (Russians- 44%, Belorussians- 38, Lithuanians/ Latvians- 29, Ukrainians- 21, Podlasians - 12, Mazovians- 7, Estonians/Livs??)

    I enclose combined accessible tables regarding racial structure of South-East Baltic peoples. Most of my sources comes from the end of XIX c. Great disadvantages are: incomplete dates, different methodology approach and great race changes. After 1939 race structure of South-East Baltic region changed significantly due to:
    · Extermination of 1-2mln Jewish population
    · Extermination and expulsion of Slavic and Baltic population
    · Expulsion of 2,5mln of Germans from South-East Baltic region
    · Resettlement of 1,5mln of Poles from Lithuania and Belarus to South- East Prussia, and Pomerania
    · Immigration of Russians to North-East Prussia
    · Immigration of Russians to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania (25-50% of population). High mixture tendency.
    · Inner migrations in Soviet Union and Poland
    · Urbanization and mixing of race types (darkening)

    I hope that in spite of all the faults this information will be useful.




    Few notes:

    1. Slavic and Baltic populations in region are closely related (language and race). Both groups preserves ancient features –high degree of light element 70-80%, tendency to mesocephaly 79-81, narrow facial features, short/medium height
    2. Equal percentage of blond elements on the South Baltic coast was placed parallel to latitudes (see school children statistics). – most blond – Schleswig-Holstein, II group- Mecklenburg, Pommern, East+West Prussia, Lithuania, III group Brandenburg, Posen, Masovia, Podlasie.
    3. There was no significant differences in pigmentation between German and Slavic/ Baltic element among one geographical group. The only one difference was stronger tendency to darkening of Slavic/ Baltic adults. Most of East German population was germanicized Slavic/Baltic stock.
    4. Brunets and people with dark features makes loose groups, without sharp centers, being foreign and late element. There are also older dark elements, which disappear in pure form and exist only in strong tendency to darkening hairs (dark blond, brown), or eyes (gray).
    5. Late brunet element immigrated mostly from south – Alps, Balkan, Carpathian region along great rivers –Oder, Vistula, Dnepr.
    6. Strong tendency to dolichocephalism, blond, and tall height among Estonians/Livs and Pommeranians/Cassubians, could be relics of Scandinavian influences.
    7. Very short blond dolichocephalic type (ci-77, fi –88,4) which makes 9% of East Lithuanians, appears among Ests, Latvians, Poles, and possibly Prussians could be reduced Nordic relic.
    8. There was strong source of light, short, brachycephalic type (1640, 84ci) in Pripet Marches (Polesians) (old?)
    9. Strong finish feature of snub/flat nose (and blond?) comes from the north-east (Russians- 44%, Belorussians- 38, Lithuanians/ Latvians- 29, Ukrainians- 21, Estonians/Livs??)
    10. From South-East comes tendency to broad occiput. (brunet?)



    Best regards
    norda

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    norda,

    Some very good information there. I've always been fascinated by the Polish anthropological old school, but could never get my mits on any of the stuff.

    7. Very short blond dolichocephalic type (ci-77, fi –88,4) which makes 9% of East Lithuanians, appears among Ests, Latvians, Poles, and possibly Prussians could be reduced Nordic relic.
    But I would not take their stature readings very seriously. All this type is a Nordic with depressed stature due to poor diet and/or hard physical work. Their descendants are probably over 190cm now.

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