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Thread: Ideas on The Occident

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Post What is to be done?

    Ok, here's another few thoughts of mine.

    The Occident essentially refers to the West Aryan race, meaning the white Eurasian race whose population four hundred years ago spanned from Gibraltar to the Urals, bound together by Christianity (Christianity is to be despised obviously, yet by drawing the line like that and in that time frame we keep out the Albanian muslims, turks etc.). The Occident also refers to the traditional values and common culture of those peoples.

    So what needs to be done? First, I believe well and truly that the inter-national hostilities between Europe need to be overcome - Russia/Ukraine, Poland/Germany, Germany/France, etc. If these national hostilities remain, this could be disastrous for Europe, AGAIN. And so I am an anti-nationalist, but firmly pro-European. I see absolutely nothing wrong with maintaining national culture and the biological differences between nations within Europe, but I do not wish to see another European civil war.

    The Occident, in my opinion (I'm going to violate a few of Spengler's core ideas here), is made up of five distinctive characters. Greek Creativity, Roman Discipline, Western European Will to Power, American Free Development, and East European Brotherhood. These 'Spirits' need to be unified and systematized in order to ressurect the Occident, I believe. If this can be done on a cultural level (remember, only a handful of intellectuals and cultural aristocrats are required to bring about a movement, even without going into party-politics and mass movements - just remember the Enlightenment intellectuals and the French Revolution that followed), we're heading in the right direction.

    On the weekend I'll get busy with my essay 'On Freedom and Power', have it posted here hopefully, and that'll stir some thoughts up pretty well and hopefully shove us in the right direction. Culture is everything, trust me.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Post Sounds like ...

    it will be interesting.

    I think most would agree that classic nationalism would not achieve what most here hope for. Up the the mid-20th Century it generally had nothing to check raw national ambitions. Combined with remnant (or revived in Germany) imperial aims, the result was bloodbath.

    On the other hand, a Unified Europe goes too far if we wish to preserve peoples and cultures.

    The question, I suppose, is can there be a new nationalism that fosters a level of cooperation or, at least, lubricates old wounds with diplomatic aloe?

    What common ground can be made also sacred ground? Some of Anarch's list of five include foundational aspects for all of Europe (to varying degrees) and some are ethno-specific (at different times for different peoples).

    So each in the list has its defining people and moment in history which displays the 'model.' Presumably all Europeans (or whites, or Aryans, or Indo-Europeans) possess these traits at all times to greater or lesser extent.

    Bringing these 'spirits' together to form that common ground while preserving the local is a challenge indeed. Time for a new Thule Society...better than the original?
    Last edited by OnionPeeler; Thursday, August 14th, 2003 at 08:39 AM.

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Post

    I certainly think so. In a few minutes I'm off to keep writing my essay. The question is, a Thule Society or a Freemasons style organisation? I'm thinking a cross between GRECE, the Thule Society and a pan-European brotherhood. Could be influential.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Post I think you're right.

    So to speak.

    Perhaps one oriented to the English-speaking, Anglo-Keltic world. Such an organ has never been produced...probably because of the pragmatic nature of A-K polity.

    There are some indications that we a becoming more continental...ie allowing a greater role for ideology. Reagan's 'supply-side' economics and Bush's 'neo-conservatism' are ideologically grounded (if misguided).

    I'm aware of none representing the right, much less Third Position.
    Last edited by OnionPeeler; Thursday, August 14th, 2003 at 09:36 AM.

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    Post

    The traditional hostility between Germany and France has already disappeared in the last 50 years. Even German Nationalists who don't want to have the fact concealed that the Elsaß and parts of Lothringen are ethnic-historical German countries and were only Frenchized in later modern times in the upper classes of the population, don't feel in anyway hostile for France or dream of Elsaß-Lothringen coming back to Germany. It's good and enough when the people of Elsaß-Lothringen can keep their specific character within the French state and aren't forced to change their ethnic Germanness. Today that country is more in danger of being Negrofied and Arabized. Look at the banlieus of Straßburg: It's a horror.

    I don't really believe that a Thule Society or Freemasons style organisation will bring the great change. You needn't forget that we havn't got all time of the world, because our birth rates are low and the process of flooding in of dark blood gets more and more dangerous.
    I have already pointed out a few times that I'm more a friend of mass party politics. There's always the danger that such a mass organisation becomes shallow in its ideas and goals. But I think when it has got the right leaders, it can indeed master the antagonism and be "popular" and "aristocratic" in one. It's also necessary that the one organisation has several sub-organisations within itself with different character. A certain inner education in the organisation of the most talented and intelligent people must of course be deeper than the enlightening of the masses on a few great truths.

    It's necessary that it's only "popular" by giving the masses a simplified, but still correct and right view of the situation and of its fundamental principles. It's a simple fact that most people aren't Academicians and never will be, and that they don't read thick books about politics and history. What's important: the movement never must become "populistic" in a indifferent way that the leaders only chase for the latest sentences that could be "popular" among the masses. Here one has to make a great difference between the true necessarity of being "popular" and a false "populism".
    If real intellectuals, men not of acting but of thinking, don't want to join the party and stay putside, that's okay. That's nothing new and has always been so. They still can have influence to politics by giving advices and doing their own intellectual thing.

    The leaders will be of course always "aristocratic" and noble in their attitude. But it will be necessary for the future of our people that they take their swords and jump into that shallow world, that dirt of politics and society. We are still in a situation where great good-willing parts of the many ordinary people will admire and follow such heroism. even if all these little people outside there aren't such heroes themselves, they will be deep impressed if someone will come and try to cut Gordian Knot with all power. So if the inner circle of the leaders is still "aristocratic", many un-"aristocratic", ordinary people who feel the great danger our Western world is now in, will follow these leaders when they feel that now real heroic, "anti-political" politicians did arrive who mean what they say deep and serious and without compromises.

    But one day it will be even to late for this. If our people are biological extinguished, nothing can help anymore.
    Last edited by Nordgau; Thursday, August 14th, 2003 at 10:10 AM.
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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by OnionPeeler
    it will be interesting.

    I think most would agree that classic nationalism would not achieve what most here hope for. Up the the mid-20th Century it generally had nothing to check raw national ambitions. Combined with remnant (or revived in Germany) imperial aims, the result was bloodbath.

    Re:
    Take a look at the " I want your honest Opinion "
    Tread in the Slavic Vortex, then you see the
    Results...

    On the other hand, a unified Euopa goes too far if we wish to preserve peoples and cultures.

    Re:
    Thats what i think,too.
    -----------------
    The question, I suppose, is can there be a new nationalism that fosters a level of cooperation or, at least, lubricates old wounds with diplomatic aloe?

    Re:
    The Question is rather are today`s National Goverments
    representig their People or are they representing
    corrupt Industrial Powers abusing the ones they should
    care for ?
    ----------------------------
    Bringing these 'spirits' together to form that common ground while preserving the local is a challenge indeed. Time for a new Thule Society...better than the original?
    Re: At least this Forum shows that nothing is impossible,
    People from all over Europe standing for their Culture,
    Race and Tradition. And showing Acceptance for
    each other.

    Nothing`s lost,

    Hail ! your Utgard-Loki

    -----------------------

    " Jeder ist seines eigenen
    Glückes Schmied !"

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    Post Continental vs. Anglo Politics

    I suspect that Thorburnulf is right when he argues that popular modes are enough. But I think this may be limited to Europe proper. Most European parliaments allow for some form of proportional representation.

    By contrast, the most extreme example of bifurcated A-K politics is America and its system. While there are hundreds of parties, there are only two effectives. When a third rises, it is gobbled up by one of the big two.

    Consequently, for minor revolutions to occur, one of the big parties need be hijacked. Conservative/Christian Republicans did it through Reagan (Thatcher was the British reflex.) and moderate Republicans did it through 'neo-conservative' Bush II. The Democrats are seen for what they are...idea-less since Johnson though no one has been able to dismantle their Great Society agenda or its successor, Diversity.

    (What is a moderate Republican? A Democrat with a portfolio.)

    I don't know that there's any real hope of absconding the Republican Party, but there are certainly alienated factions: real conservatives, Christian right. Even if ideology is becoming less important in Europe (I'm not convinced that's true.), it has been fairly important in the Republican Party for thirty years.

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Post

    Evola's ideas might have sunk in a bit deep into me, but I'm well and truly convinced regular party politics = dead. Or maybe its my elitism... *shrugs* Populist street movements, local folkish nationalism, underground cultural movements, etc., basically I'm for anything OUTSIDE the current political system. The reason I suggested a Freemason style society was that it'd be good to get ideas flowing across the Occident, act as a base for any political organisations, and work as a support network.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Post politics = deadend

    I am -almost- entirely in agreement with this. But I think we should always be open to opportunistic use.

    Since Thule had been mentioned, I was pointing out that the American 'right' has been susceptible to ideological winds. The neo-con takeover is ideologically based. Not that George II really understands it.

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Of course, that's true, but the Neo-Con takeover was based on think tanks, i.e. intellectual groups, like the American Enterprise Institute (LOL they like to give themselves nice names, don't they?). This enforces my idea that ideals underpin politics. I'm going to go into Melbourne today to go book hunting (hopefully I can find SOMEWHERE a copy of Decline of the West, otherwise I'll have to get something about Yockey), I should have my essay 'On Freedom and Power' done soon.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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