The Most Germanic Among Germanics - The 'B.B.M.H. Pocket'

[+Suomut+]

After a little research I have come to the opinion that those folks who can trace all or most of their genetic lineages to the families of the region encompassed between the North Sea (including the Eastern and Northern Frisian Islands) up the Weser/Aller Rivers to around Braunschweig and down the Elbe River (or perhaps better called 'the Bremen-Braunschweig-Magdeburg-Hamburg Pocket') have the highest odds of being the most "Germanic" among all "Germanics." Likely, IMO, these folks are indeed the most genetically "Germanic" of all "Germanics." No other "Germanics" wherever have as strong a claim on this status as these folks do (yes, Scandinavians included). The facts on this topic are thus:

1.) This area falls within the 'primitive' area of north-central Europe commonly known as the "Proto-Germanic" area. In other words, this area is contained within the foundation area of "Germanic" Europe. Perhaps there were non-Germanic ppls. that inhabited this area before the arrival of Germanics, but no one knows the answer to this question. These potential pre-'Proto-Germanic' ppls. may be one of the greatest sources of non-Germanic blood in the veins of those who trace genetic heritage to this area (henceforth referred to as the 'B.B.M.H. Pocket').

2.) The area to the south & west of the Weser/Aller Rivers was originally populated by a mysterious, non-Germanic, non-Celtic ppl. This ppl. (or ppls.) never occupied land north or east of this Weser/Aller line. It was Germanics and Celts over the course of time who overran and divided up this region roughly centered on the Rein River. This 'mystery' ppl.(s) evidently never had any genetic effect upon the B.B.M.H. Pocket.

3.) The B.B.M.H. Pocket never at any time fell within the confines of the Roman/Latin Empire.

4.) I know not for sure, but if my memory serves me correctly I doubt the Huns under Attila ever controlled or even raided this region.

5.) This Pocket (along with the rest of Saxon & Frisian country) was conquered by the Franks (ca. 772-804). Surely this occupation and control by the Franks (who were obviously during this time frame overwhelmingly 'Germanic' by blood) had a negligible genetic effect upon the families of this Pocket.

6.) During the time frame ca. 800-845 the B.B.M.H. Pocket fell subject
to 'Viking activity.' I know not whether these 'Vikings' built settlements in said area. But, as was the case with the Franks surely this had a negligible genetic effect upon the families of this Pocket especially given the high likelihood that these 'Vikings' were from Scandinavia, i.e. overwhelmingly 'Germanic' by blood.

7.) This Pocket did not fall within the 'raid area' of the Magyars during the 900s. Other parts of Sachsen to the south and west of Bremen did, ca. 906-38.

8.) During the period 929-968 Slavic tribes inhabited most of the lands to the east of the Elbe: the Wagrians inhabited the bottleneck of the Cimbric Peninsula (Denmark); and other tribes such as the Abodrites and Polobii resided in the other lands east of the river. Evidently, none of these Slavic tribes resided in the B.B.M.H. Pocket.

9.) By the 1,100s this Pocket fell under the political organization of Sachsen & the Holy Roman Empire, i.e. the '1st Reich.' Thus, minimal to null non-Germanic genetic influences.

10.) During the time frame ca. 1648-60 about 1/2 of the B.B.M.H. Pocket fell under Swedish rule. Again, surely minimal non-Germanic genetic influences were effected.

11.) By ca. 1806 all of said Pocket was under the political control of Prussia. Surely, this also resulted in minimal to minor non-Germanic genetic effects.

12.) For less than 5 years during the period, ca. 1812, the B.B.M.H. Pocket was under Napoleonic French rule. Given the ethnicity in charge and the brief time-frame surely the non-Germanic genetic effects were minor.

13.) During both the 2nd & 3rd Reichs the Pocket was under 'deutsch' control thus again resulting in minimal to null non-Germanic genetic influences.

14.) Said Pocket was under 'British' rule during the post-war period ca. 1945-9. Given the ethnicity in control and the brief time-frame surely this resulted in minimal to minor non-Germanic genetic effects.

15.) Beyond the potential of pre-Proto-Germanic genetic influences on the families with deep roots in the B.B.M.H. Pocket perhaps only the urbanization of more recent times (perchance within the past 300 years) can be blamed for any significant non-Germanic genetic infusions to said group.

In conclusion, those Frisian and Sachsen families who possess the deepest and strongest roots to this 'Bremen-Braunschweig-Magdeburg-Hamburg Pocket' and the accompanying Frisian Islands have the highest likelihood and strongest claim on being genetically the most 'Germanic' among all 'Germanics.' These families should be considered, IMO, the rock-hardcore of all genetic 'Germania.'

[cosmocreator]

I would say, genetics aside, that the Falish type have the most right to call themselves German.

[Tryggvi]

Very interesting elaboration, Mike!

What about other areas, such as (South-)Eastern Norway? Do you see any significant non-Germanic influences there?

[+Suomut+]

Very interesting elaboration, Mike!

What about other areas, such as (South-)Eastern Norway? Do you see any significant non-Germanic influences there?

Eastern Norsemen: the 'Lapp-factor.' All 'Scandinavians' (esp. Swedes and to a lesser extent Norsemen): the 'Lapp-factor.' For Danes, I think the 'Lapp-factor' is less of an issue, but the elusive 'Slav-factor' comes into play. Also, for Icelanders, I also think the 'Lapp-factor' is less of an issue, but nearly all Icelanders are part Celt, of course.

Now, some of these Germanic folks that live on some of these isolated! islands located esp. in the North Sea area and perhaps also in the western Baltic Sea area could put forth good arguments in favor of 'Germanic-homogeneity--it's HARD to research said folks.

BTW, I did make one possible mistake in this piece...the Attila/Hun factor (pt. #4)...Loki assisted me with this along with a little further digging...ca. 451 the MAIN part of this Hunnish thrust tore through the Germanic world of that day further south through the Rhineland, but evidently these Huns held all Germanics south of the area we all know of now as Schleswig in a state of utter terror. I can't help but wonder if the Huns really had much of a genetic effect upon the 'B.B.M.H. Pocket'--did they firmly control this area or did they merely raid it? I think it probably true that these Huns by virture of their evil reputation and infamy intimidated those of this Pocket into political submission with minimal physical Hunnish presence. The Visigoths esp. BROKE! this notion of Hunnish invincibility on the Catalonian Fields ('The Battle of Nations,' the most important and desperate battle the 'White World' has ever fought). Due in large part to this battle the Huns held sway over the 'Germania' of that day for only a handful of decades, so was all that enough to significantly undermine most of 'genetic Germania' generally or the 'B.B.M.H. Pocket' particularly? The answer to this is simple and obvious: no. Thank God and our forefathers. :-|

[Stríbog]

There is detectable Mongoloid ancestry among something like 2% of Germans. Additionally, French children were/are occasionally born with slightly Mongoloid eyes attributed to Hunnish genes. I don't believe we can simply write off the Hun genetic impact as nonexistent.

[+Suomut+]

There is detectable Mongoloid ancestry among something like 2% of Germans.

I'm not a subscriber to the notion that there exist certain genetically 'pure' ethnicities, races, subraces, nations, etc.; so this figure you quote surprises me not. If this figure is true (and that's a whole other argument I don't desire to engage in at this time), then the question I have about it is just WHAT is/are the sources of this? I would think the old Hunnish invasion of the 400s would be one of the weakest sources for all modern 'Germans.' In respect to this B.B.M.H. Pocket (and it's applicable families) that I speak of I can't help but wonder if this figure has little if any validity. Anyway, a modern 'German' with 2% 'Mongoloid' heritage makes not an "Oriental" IMO. 2 out of 100 is just 2 points away from nothing--score 2 out of 100 on a test and what is the grade: "Z-" or something like that?...almost the LOWEST grade possible! lol ;-)

Additionally, French children were/are occasionally born with slightly Mongoloid eyes attributed to Hunnish genes.

You'll notice in this thread of mine I spoke little of the Franks & the modern French for these/this etnicities(-ity) have had over time have had very little connection to said Pocket. I would, though, make the same argument over the French in regard to 'Mongoloid' heritage as I have about over modern 'Germans.'

I don't believe we can simply write off the Hun genetic impact as nonexistent.

I don't know who the 'we' is in your sentence, but I can't be counted among it. Nowhere in this thread did I ever state that the Hun genetic impact (ca. 400s) was nonexistent. All Germanics, Scandinavian Germanics excluded, due to this very old 'Atillic invasion' have the potential of being partially 'Hunnish' by stock; I freely admit this potentiality.

[Glenlivet]

Falid or "die fälische rasse" is perhaps unique for Germanics, or it is at least the type which make Germanics distinctive. It is definitely what I associate with a quintessential German appearance. This would mean that many Swedes and Norwegians have less right to call themselves Germanic. How about the Englishmen who are darker-haired, longer-headed, slim, more narrow-faced with nasal convexity and a gracile body type? Do you call them Celtic?

Falids, derived from Westphalia in Western Germany are also common in Austria and the Netherlands.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/...senkunde2.html

I like the site below, please check it out:

http://www.nordzeit.de/

http://www.nordzeit.de/awk.htm

I would say, genetics aside, that the Falish type have the most right to call themselves German.

[Nordgau]

"Germanic nature" is perhaps rather the connection of Nordic and Falish race. I hardly would tend to say that Nordic Germans, Dutch, Englishmen, Swedes etc. without Falish features are "less Germanic" than such who are Falish. It's true that Falish features are "more typical Germanic" in the sense that they are comparatively less spreaded among non-Germanic populations. Hm... wern't the ancient blond and blue-eyed Guanches of the Canarian Islands also of Falish type?

Interesting is that the mental-spiritual nature of Nordics and Falish is quite different in some aspects and that these two contrasting aspects are two sides of the "Germanic nature": the Nordic race is the dynamic, restless soul that tries to grasp for the stars, while the Falish race is "heavy", massive and steady in its nature, he sticks on his hearth and home and is the type one calls a Dickschädel (my dictionary translates it with "pighead". I don't know if it really is from its meaning the same). Clauß calls, trying to catch the spiritual "style" of the races, the Nordic man the Leistungsmensch ("ability/efficiency man") and the Falish man the Verharrungsmensch ("persistence man"). Günther speaks of the "bold will-power" (kühne Willenskraft) of the Nordic and the "defiant will-power" (trotzige Willenskraft) of the Falish race.
Persistence and defiance is characteristic for the tribal nature of the Lower Saxons (with Westphalia), an area with at least a strong Falish racial element; the (Lower) Saxons as tribe mainly stayed during the Völkerwanderung where they were. The glorious Niedersachsenlied (Lower Saxony Song), written in 1934, sounds like a characterisation of Falish racial nature:

Von der Weser bis zur Elbe, von dem Harz bis an das Meer stehen Niedersachsens Söhne: eine feste Burg und Wehr. Fest wie unsre Eichen halten allzeit wir stand, wenn Stürme brausen übers deutsche Vaterland. Wir sind die Niedersachsen, sturmfest und erdverwachsen, Heil Herzog Wittekinds Stamm!

("From the Weser to the Elbe, from the Harz up to the sea, the sons of Lower Saxony stand: one solid castle and bulwark. Solid like our oaks always we withstand when storms rage over the German fatherland. We are the Lower Saxons, storm-proof and earth-grown, Hail Duke Wittekind's tribe!")

[Stríbog]

"Germanic nature" is perhaps rather the connection of Nordic and Falish race. I hardly would tend to say that Nordic Germans, Dutch, Englishmen, Swedes etc. without Falish features are "less Germanic" than such who are Falish. It's true that Falish features are "more typical Germanic" in the sense that they are comparatively less spreaded among non-Germanic populations. Hm... wern't the ancient blond and blue-eyed Guanches of the Canarian Islands also of Falish type?

The most common race in Germany is Alpine.
Austria is no more Nordic than Slovenia or Northern Italy, does this make northern Italy Germanic? I'm just thoroughly astounded by the continued claim that Germanic = Nordic, when countries like Austria and Switzerland are considered Germanic simply because they speak Germanic languages. Even more ironic is that some of the Nordic = Germanic = Aryan purists here are themselves Dinaric with dark hair and dark eyes.

[Stríbog]

Even McCulloch states that Germany is 4% Hallstatt.
http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/rg-hallstatt.html

And 20% Falid, which may even be an overestimate.
http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/rg-falish.htm

Taking these numbers at face value, Germany itself is 24% Germanic, and the rest are impostors.