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Thread: Shamanic Influences in West Eurasian Religions

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    Post Shamanic Influences in West Eurasian Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Volksdeutscher
    The belief system among the Siberian Turks is something found all along the Shamanic belt from northernmost Scandinavia to Northeastern Russia, and some would suggest beyond among the North American Indians. It is related to Indo-Germanics inasmuch that all ancient people had a stronger connection with nature.
    Theres evidence from comparative mythology that the shamanic belt extended into the Celtic and Germanic cultures, where traces of it are found in the pre-Christian religion, such as in the cult of Odin, which shouldn't be understood as that of a Mediterranean resurrection god, because he didnt hang for any other reason than to gain wisdom, like a shamanic ordeal, indeed it seems that Odin was apparently a role model for shamen.

    I feel that, like the origins of Japanese Shinto, the traditional Germanic religion at the time of the arrival of Christianity must have emerged from shamanic beliefs in the stricter definition of shamanic that refers to northern Eurasian beliefs, as well as simply being applied animism or a "stronger connection with nature".

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    Post Re: Can anybody also classify me please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oskorei
    What is more interesting is whether you are assimilable into the population where you currently live, and then there is not only the question of racial classification (physical race) but also spiritual race, race of the soul. Your interest in the connections between the ancient Turanids and the ancient Aryans might imply that, as does your adoption of a non-Muslim creed.
    IMHO you are physically "white" enough to be assimilable since you are not a Muslim, but that is my opinion and not necessarily shared by anyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athelf
    I believe in pre_islamic Turkish gods called Shamanism or Gok_Tanri which means Sky_God.
    I know a lot of people who are also sharing the same religious views in Turkey and also outside of Turkey. 2 years ago they tryed to establish a political party based on pre_islamic Turkish culture and the members were also Shamanist but unfortunately they couldnt establish it because they made a referendum around Turkey and only 20% of Turkey supported them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Volksdeutscher
    20 % support from the all the Turkish people? How would that be determined? Where is that data from? Really, a referendum? Can you show an article online about this referendum?

    That would be significant.
    Turkishdaliynews.com has this to say:

    "Alawiism is a composite, yet original religion which has its roots in the two major religions of pre-Islamic times: The Gok-Tanri (Sky-God) of the Oguzs in Central Asia and the Zaharadustran religion… Contrary to what some people maintain, Alawiism is not a continuation of a dispute over who would emerge as the caliphate after the death of Prophet Mohammed…And, nearly 20 million Turkish Alawis, constituting at least one-third of the overall population in this country, are now engaged in a quest for an identity. A quest which has been continuing for many years"
    http://www.turkishdailynews.com/old_editions/11_28_02/feature.htm

    I hope you have fun embracing and assimilating 20 million kindred Turkish souls in Scandinavia

    Some adherents of Gok-Tanri-ism seem to have a lively imagination and are using it to create spurious claims to Constantinople, ancient Greek culture, and everything else under the sun…

    "As most of you may know, there is a term in English called "anagrammatize" which comes form the word "anagram" meaning " 1 A WORD OR PHRASE FORMED BY TRANSPOSING THE LETTERS OF ANOTHER WORD OR PHRASE. It is my finding that this very innocent sounding game has been used as a technique to manufacture new languages from ancient and recent Turkish words/phrases. In other words, the ancient Turkish language, which was a widely spoken language over a vast geographic area since very ancient times, has been used as a data base to manufacture other languages. And in this game, most likely, the religious people have been the primary players. Turkish words and phrases have been broken down, parts transposed, changed, deleted, vowels dropped or replaced with other vowels, some of the consonants changed to other related consonants, even new consonants and vowels added, and the resulting mixture is all concatenated into one word which becomes a word of a new language. To top it all off, even the pronounciation has been altered.

    All of us have been taught, erroneously and intentionally, that Turks came to the stage of history only during the last 2000 years. This is not the truth. Such a claim has been perpetrated so that modern Turks completely forget their ancient TUR ancestry. Written material emphasizes this aspect in order to obliterate the presence of Turs/Turks in ancient times. The culture and civilizations of ancient Turs have already been divided among peoples that had no relations with the creations of those cultures. Now they claim them as their own. The reason for this is that ancient Turanians gave the world most of the civilization that we use at present. Contrary to the established false beliefs, the Turkish speaking Turanians have been all over the world since very ancient times. This glorious past of ancient Turkic speaking Turanians has indeed been the cause for envy of many groups.
    http://www.kemalisturk.com/english/publications/indirancient.htm

    King CONSTANTINE I The Great (324-337) [14] is the first Eastern Roman-Byzantine king who changed the ancient city name from so-called "Byzantium" to "Constantinople". Constantine declared "Christianity" the official religion of the Eastern Roman empire, although he himself remained a "Pagan" until just before his death. In other words he was, like all other Pagan Latin emperors, a follower of the ancient Turanian Sky-God Oguz religion. In accordance with the ancient Turanian traditions, all native Tur/Turk Anatolians were also in the Turkish Sky-God Oguz religion before they were forced to be Christianized, assimilated, and obliterated by Alexander the Great and his many anti-Turkish Greek followers. With this background information, let us now understand the meaning of the name "CONSTANTINE".

    The name CONSTANTINE, when rearranged as "CON-ISTAN-TEN", is a distortion of Turkish expression "GÜN-ISTANTIN" (Gün-Istan idin) meaning "You were the Sun God". The Turkish word "GÜN" means "sun", "ISTAN" means "God" and "IDIN" means "you were". By using this Turkish expression as his title, Constantine, being a Pagan king (i.e., a follower of the Turkish Sky-God religion) was simply likening himself to the Sun God. All kings of the ancient world were using such titles in Turkish to liken themselves to the Sun and thus deify and ennoble themselves. Thus the title CONSTANTINE deifies this Roman-Greek king in Turkish and in accordance with the ancient Turanian traditions.
    Also embedded in CONSTANTINE is another Turkish expression. When the name CONSTANTINE is rearranged as "CONAS-TINNTE", and read phonetically as in Turkish, it is a distortion of Turkish expression "KUNESh TININTI" (Günes dinindi) meaning "Sun was your religion", thus referring to his so-called "Pagan" (Tur/Turk) religion. This is also expressed by the Turkish expression "KONASTENTIN" (Günesdendin) meaning "you were from Sun religion". This expression also embedded in the title CONSTANTINE indicates that he was a follower of the Sun religion.
    In addition to the above, the title CONSTANTINE of this Greek king has, embedded in it, Turkish words "GÜN" (meaning SUN), "GÜNESh" (meaning SUN and SUNLIGHT), "ISTAN" (meaning GOD) and AN/HAN (meaning LORD or PALACE). So even though these Turkish words and expressions were disguised into his title, the truth of the matter is that King Constantine was still deifying himself in Turkish. This reality has been kept secret from the world up till now.

    "With this Greek-looking title that was in fact composed of Turkish words and expressions, King Constantine I The Great changed the ancient city name of BYZANTIUM, that is, the ancient Turkic name "BEYISTANUM" (BEYISTAN ÖYÜM) to the new name of "CONSTANTINOPLE", thereby suppressing the original Turkic name (BEYISTAN) even further. Alternatively, the city was also called CONSTANTINOPOLIS. This new name superficially gave the impression that it meant "The City of Constantine", however, what appears on the surface and what is hidden below are different.
    When the name CONSTANTINOPLE, is decrypted letter-by-letter as "CONESTAN-TP-ILON" and read phonetically as in Turkish, it is the restructured and disguised form of Turkish expression "KÜNISTAN TEPE ILUN" (Günistan Bash Ilin) meaning "the head city KÜNISTAN".
    With these revelations, what was previously known to the world as "Constantinople - the City of Constantine" now is revealed to be "KÜNISTAN the head city" of the Empire - where the "Greek" title "CONSTANTINOPLE" is the deliberately distorted and disguised form of "KÜNISTAN. This is also verified by the name CONSTANTINOPOLIS

    The city of Constantinople (or Künistan) was once again taken back into Turkish control by the Ottoman Sultan Fatih Mehmet Han in the year 1453. After all, the city was originally founded and belonged to the Thracian Tur/Turk peoples. It was taken from the Thracian Tur/Turks deceptively and forcefully by the ancient Greeks, contrary to all the "historical" disinformation. When the city was regained by the Turks in 1453, the name was changed to ISTANBUL - which, by the way, also contains the ancient Turkish name "ISTAN" meaning "God

    Additionally it is reported that: "the Roman emperor Septimius Severus, after having razed the town for opposing him in a civil war, in AD 196, rebuilt it, naming it "AUGUSTA ANTONINA" after his son." Embedded in the name AUGUSTA (> UGUS-ATA) is the Turkish name "OGUZ ATA" or "ATA OGUZ" meaning "Father OGUZ" which was the name of the ancient Turanian Sky-Father-God, Sun-God and Moon-God. Hence this ancient city, even during the reign of this Roman Emperor, was named after the so-called "Pagan" Sky-God Oguz.

    It must be noted that all of these names are structured around the ancient OGUZ religion of the ancient Turanian Tur/Turk peoples and their Turkish language

    In concluding, all of these revelations indicate conclusively that:
    a) Altering the language, religion, people names, town names, and geography names of the native peoples, after they have been conquered, has a very final and devastating effect on the people that are being conquered and converted. When the deceitful conquerer writes the history books, he does it in a totally one sided and intentionally altered way. Everything about the conquered people is lost. All of the previous achievements of the conquered people are suddenly transferred to the conquerer who claims his pirated gaines as his own without reference to the original source..
    b) This paper has shown that ancient Greeks took the needed texts from the Turkish language in order to compose the "Greek" sounding King names. All the names discussed in this series are testimony to that fact in spite of the fact that they are intentionally camouflaged.
    c) The Greek language words and the King names were manufactured from Turkish words and phrases that were restructured and disguised to make them look "Greek" and to hide the identity of source.
    d) The so-called "Greek civilization" is portrayed as having been created by the Greeks alone, yet the truth is that they took all they know from the much earlier Turanian Tur/Turk peoples civilization which was developed along the geography encompassing not only Asia proper but also at least the Mediterranean, Aegean, Red, Black and Caspian Sea complex.
    e) The ancient Greeks took the lands of the much earlier Turkish natives, Hellenized the natives and their names and their cities and their lands. They changed ancient Turkish names so that they could not be recognized as Turkish anymore
    http://www.groupsrv.com/science/viewtopic.php?t=57570&view=next

    Italians beware…Italy is Turkish too
    c) The name ETRURIA, the land of ancient ETRUSCANS, is also the anagram of Turkish expression "TUR ER OYU" meaning "home of TUR men". Both names ETRURIA and ETRUSCANS have TUR embedded in them..

    so is England…

    "Through extensive research into many English language words, I have discovered that English, just like Greek, Latin and other European languages, is an artificially manufactured language using Turkish words and phrases as source material which are then anagrammatized into "English" to diguise the Turkic origin."
    http://www.groupsrv.com/science/viewtopic.php?p=455209

    LOL Turanian intellectual prowess at its best

    Wikipedia has forfeited all claims to be taken seriously by mentioning the imbecile who concocted all this in an entry on the Etruscan language
    Polat Kaya, "Reading of the Lemnos Island inscription", 1997 reads the inscription as Turkic, and concludes "we may have to think of the Pelasgian population as people of Central Asiatic origin and also as people who spoke a form of Turkish language."
    http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/Etruscan%20language

    Wait, there is more…

    "TYR WAS THE NORSE GOD OF WAR
    This entry from the Encyclopaedia Britannica verifies clearly that the name TYR and the Turkish word TUR are one and the same and is the name of the ancient Turanian Sky-God. Secondly, all of ancient Europe including Scandinavia and the so-called British Islands and Iceland were all inhabited by the ancient Turanians, and that is why the name TUR / TYR exists in their ancient legends in those lands
    Additionally, this is why the so-called SCOTS were the SAKA TURs/TURKs extending all the way to Iceland and other north Atlantic islands. Evidently these ancient TURS of Europe not only had the same Sky-God Sun-worshipping religion, but also spoke Turkish. In fact the ancient Turanian Sky-God religion, so-called "paganism", "satanism", "shamanism", etc., was practiced all over the world including the ancient Middle East and Europe contrary to denials. Now let us examine the etymologies of some of these names.
    many Runes-written stones found all over Scandinavia is the living proof that the ancient peoples of SCANDIA were the ancient TYR / TUR believing Turkic peoples. The name SCANDIA is from the Turkic expression SAKA-HAN'DI-ÖY meaning "It was the house of SAKA-HAN" peoples."

    so you really should go ahead and assimilate 20 million Turanians as Scandinavia is rightfully theirs anyway

    "the name THOR is most likely anagrammatized from Turkic TORH/TORK/TURK ("TUR-aHa" / "TUR-aKa") or TORAH/TOROK/TURUK meaning "Lord TUR" and also the name of the TURK people."
    http://www.compmore.net/~tntr/tur2.html

    So if you’re a pagan you’re worshipping the Turks

    Here is the best resource on the net on

    the ancient Turanian Sky-God (Gök Tanri) … I humbly urge the reader to be careful and inquiring when reading this essay as it contains a wealth of new insights into the realm of the ancient Turanian religion which has been wrongly presented to the world as "shamanism".

    http://www.compmore.net/~tntr/tur2.html

    I just decided that some of the world's most stupid people must be turanians...no offense to Athelf
    Last edited by WestPrussian; Wednesday, October 20th, 2004 at 09:47 PM.

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    Post Re: Can anybody also classify me please!

    This is just too much... all the way from Greece to Scandinavia? It's just a theory anyways I mean some similar words can't prove anything...

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    Post Re: Can anybody also classify me please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athelf
    This is just too much... all the way from Greece to Scandinavia? It's just a theory anyways I mean some similar words can't prove anything...
    Can you tell me more about Gok-Tanri, because I can't find much about Altaic religion except propaganda. I know it isn't related to Alawism, despite that misleading article, and I doubt any Central Asian religion was truly shamanic because by then the Altaics would have been assimilated into the natives, so because of this I suspect that most Altaic beliefs had been assimilated into Indo-European beliefs before the Turks arrived in Asia Minor.

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    Post Re: Can anybody also classify me please!

    Quote Originally Posted by atlanto-med
    Can you tell me more about Gok-Tanri, because I can't find much about Altaic religion except propaganda. I know it isn't related to Alawism, despite that misleading article, and I doubt any Central Asian religion was truly shamanic because by then the Altaics would have been assimilated into the natives, so because of this I suspect that most Altaic beliefs had been assimilated into Indo-European beliefs before the Turks arrived in Asia Minor.
    Yes, I can tell you something about it briefly...

    The ancient Turks had 17 Deities and they were; Tengri, Yer_Sub, Erlik, Umai, Sun, Moon, Star, Air, Earth, Water, Fire, Thunder and Lightning, Storm, Rain and Rainbow. They believed that these 17 gods were the rulers of our Universe. In the beliefs of the ancient Turks all existings on the Earth is subject to Tengri. It was Tengri who first of all appeared as a Supreme deity located in a celestial zone of the Universe, ruling the fates of entire people.
    Yer (Earth) and Tengri (Spirit of Sky) we percieved as two sides of a single beginning, not opposing each other but mutually complimentary. A man is born and lives on the land. The Earth is his habitat. After the death the Earth swallows him but the Earth gives the man only a material shell and to be creative and to differ from others, living on the earth, at birth Tengri gives a Kut (soul) to the man, and takes it back after death. The ancient Turks believed the lifetime of the man was at the will of Tengri and consequently the Turks addressed to him for the help and if the call was to Yer, Tengri was also always mentioned. Tengri mentioned without the Earth but not Yer (Earth) without Tengri. Tengri was considered a father and Yer a mother. Tengri acts freely but he is fair, he awards and punishes. Tengri was worshipped by lifting hands upwards and giving low bows, praying for Tengri to give good mind and health. Tengri was God of the Sky and was superior in the Universe. His greatness was emphasized by an addition to his name of the title Kagan or Khan. Tengri gives Khagans (Khans) wisdom and authority. We read on the monument in honor of Bilge-Khagan: ‘After the death of my father, at the will of Türkic Tengri (Sky) and Türkic sacred Yer-Sub (Earth and Water), I became Khan’. ‘Tengri who gives the states (to Khans), put me, it should be thought, as Khagan, so that the name and glory of the Türkic people would not disappear’. The sources of the ancient Turks, especialy the Turkic inscriptions contain facts from which it is possible to extract data about punishment by Tengri of the individuals and sometimes of the whole people. The forswearers swearing by Tengri were subject to heavy punishment by him as was punished disobedience to Kagan, switch to the enemy side etc. Because Kagans usualy lived in harmony with Tengri and were set on the throne by him. The disobedience to a deity or resistance to his will was punished by death.
    About the rules of sacrifice ritual to Gok_Tengri are few and brief. In the 5th month Turks usually slaughter sheep and horses to sacrifice to Tengri or each year Kagan led nobles to the cave with his offerings and in the middle of the 5 th month they gathered at the river Tamir to sacrifice to Tengri. During a period of almost 15 hundred years (2 c. BC to 14 c. AD) in Turkic Khanates or Empires were organised annually on a statewide public warships, sacrifices to Great Sky God Tengri. Kagans and Khans themselves were leading these warships to Sky God. Kagan was considered given by Tengri and therefore he was a Patriarch of the state for the people and nobility. In the beginning of a summer at the time determined by Kagan, tribal leaders, famous commanders etc. gathered in the capital. Together with Kagan they went to the sacred mountain to sacrifice a colt to Great Tengri. Thousands of people from nearby villages and cities gathered at sacred mountains, valleys and lakes. Tens of thousands of fires burnt near birches on sacred grounds where were sacrificed horses and sheep. The recorted rituals of the ancient Turks in the past had various functions. Ones were accompained by sacrifices, others were limited only to prayer.

    I think thats enough for now. If there is something else that you would like to know just ask me so I can tell you more.

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    Post Re: Can anybody also classify me please!

    Quote Originally Posted by atlanto-med
    Can you tell me more about Gok-Tanri, because I can't find much about Altaic religion except propaganda. I know it isn't related to Alawism, despite that misleading article, and I doubt any Central Asian religion was truly shamanic because by then the Altaics would have been assimilated into the natives, so because of this I suspect that most Altaic beliefs had been assimilated into Indo-European beliefs before the Turks arrived in Asia Minor.
    Correct. Alawism is not a religion of Turks, it is mostly a Kurdish religion.

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    Post Re: Can anybody also classify me please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athelf
    I think thats enough for now. If there is something else that you would like to know just ask me so I can tell you more.
    Interesting. There are similarities to the old Northern faith, and it seems like a healthy faith. If you are familiar with the thoughts of Julius Evola, it does seem like an example of Hyperborean spirituality.

    I am curious about two things:

    1. How were the followers of Tengri buried after death?

    2. Did the ancient Turks have some sort of caste-system?

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    Post Re: Can anybody also classify me please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oskorei
    Interesting. There are similarities to the old Northern faith, and it seems like a healthy faith. If you are familiar with the thoughts of Julius Evola, it does seem like an example of Hyperborean spirituality.

    I am curious about two things:

    1. How were the followers of Tengri buried after death?

    2. Did the ancient Turks have some sort of caste-system?
    No actually we didnt have a caste-system or something but for us Kagan, I mean the king of the state or the empire was like a prophete who is sent by Tengri.

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    Post Re: Can anybody also classify me please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oskorei
    Correct. Alawism is not a religion of Turks, it is mostly a Kurdish religion.
    Thats not actually a Kurdish religion. I mean thats not a nation religion, for the followers of Alawism the prophet is Ali not Mahommed and they dont go to mosque. They have their special houses and they dont pray like other muslims. They just dance by singing their religious songs, thats how they pray.

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    Post Re: Can anybody also classify me please!




    And as an addition... This is the Tengri (Tanri) mountains in Central Asia. In Gok_Tanri religion this is where the heaven is for pagan Turks, it's like Valhalla in Asatru.

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