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Thread: Church Exorcism Kills Boy

  1. #51
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    Ah, that sounds like a retreat.
    I went on one of those with my school some years ago.
    The place really had a tranquil feel about it. Even though it was in the town, it felt somewhat detached from the rest of the world.

    Cosmo, I hear that "the Church is just a big bloated multi-million pound corporation" a lot, primarily by people who have a dislike or even hatred of the Church.
    The fact is that most of the "wealth" is in assets.
    It is the single largest religion in the world with over a billion adherents.
    There are countless churches, cathedrals, schools, universites,etc all over the world. It brings in money to mainatin these buildings and institutions, to give a living allowance to it's tens of thousands of employees, it donates much of it to charity or setting up projects for the poor. Some people have told me the Church should sell it all of and give the money to the poor. That would be fine as a one time gesture, what happens when that money runs out? No more Church or institutions to provide it over the long term.
    I'm not saying your motives are the same, but many people just use that as a thinly-veiled excuse to attack the Church.

    As for Confirmation, I made mine at about 10 or 11 years old.
    I must say that 16 sounds excessively late in life.
    Actually making your Confirmation as late as 10 or 11 seems to be a modern Vatican II type innovation as well.
    I believe that pre-Vatican II, people usually made it shortly after their First Communion (as in a matter of weeks as my parents did). Perhaps even before.
    Confirmation is basically an affirmation of your Baptismal vows.
    During Baptism, your God-parent made the vows on your behalf as you were too young to do so yourself. At Confirmation, you are asked to confirm those vows yourself.
    I believe the terminology used is that at Baptism we become Children of God (and so entitled to share in the inheritance of the Kingdom., ie it is possible for us to attain Heaven). At Confirmation, we also become Soldiers of Christ.

    These things are never made clear in these post-Vatican II days and I'm sure most people made their Confirmation without any real idea what it was all about.
    Last edited by Milesian; Thursday, August 28th, 2003 at 08:21 PM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    As for Confirmation, I made mine at about 10 or 11 years old.
    I must say that 16 sounds excessively late in life.
    Actually making your Confirmation as late as 10 or 11 seems to be a modern Vatican II type innovation as well.
    I believe that pre-Vatican II, people usually made it shortly after their First Communion (as in a matter of weeks as my parents did). Perhaps even before.
    Confirmation is basically an affirmation of your Baptismal vows.
    During Baptism, your God-parent made the vows on your behalf as you were too young to do so yourself.

    This is exactly why 10 or 11 seems way too early to me. How is a 10 or 11 year old supposed to be able to make an informed decision on this?
    If anything, they should increase the age to 18 or 21. By that time the person will probably know if Catholicism is for them and will be able to reject it if they choose to, rather than having it forced upon them by their parents or guardians.

  3. #53
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    Actually, you have a point there,I was still proudly aethiest at that age.
    I'm not sure the reason behind the choice of age.
    It may be akin to Baptism for infants in the fact that the child is baptised as soon as possible if God forbid, anything should happen to it, at least it will be capable of entering Heaven.
    Perhaps there is a similarly pressing reason for rushing Confirmation so quickly after First Communion.

    I don't really know the reason for it.
    I would assume it falls under "Church discipline" and isn't actual dogma.
    Therefore the age for Confirmation can likely be changed.

    Good point though, if there is no theological reason for it then perhaps postponing it longer would be a reasonable idea.

    I like the old ways , mind you

  4. #54
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    @ Phlegethon:

    I just read that interview you posted, and I have 2 questions:
    1) How did you ever meet that guy? If you don't want to discuss it, I understand. I am curious, though.
    2) Do you know what he meant when he talked about the demons being either scorpions or snakes? I've never heard anything like that before.

    @Milesian:

    YOU - of all people - were once an Atheist? Well wonders never cease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azdaja
    @ Phlegethon:

    I just read that interview you posted, and I have 2 questions:
    1) How did you ever meet that guy? If you don't want to discuss it, I understand. I am curious, though.
    2) Do you know what he meant when he talked about the demons being either scorpions or snakes? I've never heard anything like that before.
    I'd like to add a 3rd question if I may:

    3) Why do you think more women are possessed by demons, or this their natural state?

  6. #56
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    And if I may be even bolder:

    4) Following the rationale of aversion to Christianity being evidence of demonic possession, can Jews be said to be demonically possessed? Can the judge involved in working to remove the Ten Commandments display in Alabama be said to be under Satan's control and must submit to an emergency exorcism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordhammer
    I'd like to add a 3rd question if I may:

    3) Why do you think more women are possessed by demons, or this their natural state?
    HAHAHAHAHAAA!


    I had no idea so many of you had a religious background. My Mom used to bribe me to go to church?? I stopped believing in god before I found out Santa Claus wasn't real (and not because I believed in Santa for a long time) Oh, I did go to a Mennonite school for awhile...if that counts ha-ha-ha

    And yes, Phlegethon, please do tell us more about your encounter with Father Amorth
    I envision a world where people dawning long white robes and elaborate headdresses run rampant down the streets, waving their arms in the air while screaming "we've gone mad, we've gone mad", like defrocked monks breaking the silence of ages past.

    Spoonblade: Sharper than a knife and twice as deadly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azdaja
    @ Phlegethon:
    1) How did you ever meet that guy?
    Well, it was years ago when I was a teenager and still involved in the Catholic Youth Movement. As far as I know Father Amorth still regularly does speaking tours throughout Europe, he seemed pretty virile to me, despite his age. On these speaking tours he talked primarily with teenagers and especially targeted those who take those theatrical black metal antics for real. Back in those days black metal was not really a factor yet, but Satanist groups and occult rituals were. Amorth speaks several languages, is highly intelligent and differered a lot from the Protestant zealots you so often can see on TV. He actually knows what he is talking about from first-hand experience. And despite the image one would have of an exorcis he actually is quite humorous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azdaja
    2) Do you know what he meant when he talked about the demons being either scorpions or snakes? I've never heard anything like that before.
    I don't think he mentioned in his lecture. maybe you'll find the answer in one of his books.
    And all my youth passed by sad-hearted,
    the joy of Spring was never mine;
    Autumn blows through me dread of parting,
    and my heart dreams and longs to die.

    - Nikolaus Lenau (1802-1850)

    Real misanthropes are not found in solitude, but in the world; since it is experience of life, and not philosophy, which produces real hatred of mankind.

    - Giacomo Leopardi (1798-1837)

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