Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Building a Pan-Germanic Nation

  1. #1
    Funding Member Leofric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Online
    9 Hours Ago @ 07:57 AM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Gender
    Age
    39
    Zodiac Sign
    Aquarius
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Telecommunications
    Politics
    Libertarian/Neo-Imperialist
    Religion
    Heathen
    Posts
    1,219
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    10
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Post Building a Pan-Germanic Nation

    This thread is an offshoot from Sigel's thread entitled Are Pan-Germanism and Nationalism incompatible?

    A few of us there started discussing how we could advance toward a pan-Germanic nation, and I thought we could use a new thread devoted to that specific topic. I'll start out the discussion.

    I think that before we do anything political, we need to develop a greater social awareness of a Germanic nation. This is a lot like what the early German nationalists had to do — as we all know, the Germans of the 18th century did not see themselves as Germans, but as Bavarians, Saxons, Prussians, and so forth. Even though they spoke the same language and shared many traditions, customs, and world views, they did not think that anything like a German nation existed. Only through the concerted effort of authors, artists, linguists, musicians, essayists, speakers, merchants, and other folks devoted to German nationalism were they able to create the idea of a German nation in the minds and hearts of the people. This is an important point: before their work, the concept of "the German nation" was ludicrous to almost every German. Since their work, that concept's validity is unquestioned.

    In my opinion, proceeding from our current point to broad acceptance of a pan-Germanic nation will require this kind of work. We will again need the concerted effort of all these classes of folk, and it will be long and difficult — ever so much more so than it was for the German nationalists who spent the 19th century creating a German nation almost ex nihilo.

    Perhaps because I am in the United States, living among my fellow United Statesians (that's a real word — I got it from the OED), I think the first step that needs to happen is to increase public awareness of the existence of Germanic nations (very like Anna telling the Siamese princes about the existence of a place called Norway). It is sad that such a step would be necessary, but where necessary it must be taken. From there, we can focus on increasing public awareness of our common similarities, especially where these similarities distinguish us from non-Germanics. Ways to do this could include, but are certainly not limited to, the following:
    • Performing and publishing scientific research on our biological, psychological, sociological, &c similarities
    • Teaching the various Germanic languages in our schools, stressing the similarities between the target language and the native language
    • Informing people of our folk's early common history, perhaps relating the North Sea littoral to the ancient Mediterranean littoral, or discussing the Völkerwanderung and its similarities to the Germanic colonization of North America in recent centuries
    • Publicly discussing our common ancestral systems of weights and measures
    • Publishing historical fiction or other cultural fare about the Hanseatic league, an early predecessor to a Germanic-only version of the EEC
    • Publicly celebrating the contributions of Germanic people to our culture (which would show quickly that just about everything of value in our culture is the product of Germanic people — after all, do you prefer the increasingly ubiquitous Multicultural Marxism or the ever-useful Calculus?)
    • Perhaps the most important, promoting Germanic tourism — why go to Spain or Italy, where you can't even be certain of how and where people are going to walk (their to-me-quite-unpredictable perambulation was very unsettling for me when I visited those countries), when you could feel right at home enjoying a pleasant weekend in Iceland/Norway/New Zealand?

    Again, these are just some brainstormed ideas for increasing public awareness of our common heritage. Many more could be thought of and employed.

    While this is going on at a global level, I think more vigorous approaches could be attempted on more local levels. As I said in the earlier thread, I think that Norway, Sweden, and Denmark could merge into a single nation. Let's consider them as a case study.

    This would have to be achieved from the ground up, rather than from the top down as previous attempts to unify Scandinavia have gone. Those attempts met resistance of people who did not see Scandinavia as a nation and so failed. First we must get the Scandinavian people to see themselves as memebrs of a single nation. I think this would require a lot, some of which could very well be the following:
    • Creating a new spelling system that could be used to write any variety of Danish, Norwegian, or Swedish — this would meet stiff resistance, but I think it would be necessary — with very aggressive policies in the educational system, I think it could catch on within a hundred years. The value of this is immense: the common writing system shared by speakers of the many varieties of English helps us incredibly in seeing our similarities, and it would be necessary for the Scandinavians as well; they will not realize they speak the same language without that.
    • Creating a tri-state council for administering the various nonindependent colonies of the Scandinavian countries, rather than having them separately administered as they are today.
    • Creating a common monetary unit for the three states — call it a Scandinavian crown.
    • Bringing about heavy intermarriage between the Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish royal families — this is an old standby for nation-building.
    • Creating an Evangelical Lutheran Church of Scandinavia through mini-ecumenical councils of the three state churches.
    • Spreading the celebration of important holidays throughout the region. It might seem odd to us now to do something like have Swedes and Danes celebrate May 17th as a way to build a common Scandinavian nation, but until all Scandinavians start to celebrate every expression of Scandinavian spirit, they will see more divisions than similarities between them.
    Again, this is only a partial list. And these must happen slowly, and must move from the bottom up. Letters to editors, local campaigning, blogging, talking on online forums, preaching in coffeeshops and such activity will be necessary to create public desire for such ideas. Well-written, popular books and articles will help a lot. Get people to see the similarities and the advantages of working together for a truly common good (ultimately, I don't think it would be hard to convince Scandinavians that Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have more real common interests together than any of them has with Spain, Cyprus, and Poland).

    While that happens on the local level in Scandinavia, the same must happen on the continent for German-speaking nations and perhaps for the Dutch (it is, after all, another linguistic continuum). It also needs to happen among the Anglo-Saxon people. I would stress however the importance of avoiding the tendency to let particular linguistic varieties overpower others. That would be fairly easy to achieve in Scandinavia, where standard Swedish, standard Danish, and standard Norwegian (Bokmål at least) all enjoy more or less equal prestige. In Dietschland (or Deutsland if you prefer), it would be much more difficult — High German would be likely to crush Dutch, and Frisian would have even less chance of survival. In the Anglo-Saxon empire, it would be a moot point, since we have never allowed any linguistic variety of English to crush any other — we don't feel a need to slavishly link our writing system to our speech, so we can have a single writing system and thus a single language for very different speech forms. I'm not entirely certain what to do about Iceland during this stage, but I think we can include it during the final stages.

    Once we have created three main nuclei for our still-future Pan-Germanic nation — Scandinavia, Dietschland, and the Anglo-Saxon Empire — we will have to do the same kind of nation-building again, but at a higher level. That is where the real difficulty will occur, and I think the biggest difficulty will be reining in the Anglo-Saxon Empire and having them sit as equals at the board with the rest of the Germanic folk. We really do think of ourselves as superior, after all: living on islands far from the rest of you for over 1500 years has done a lot to make snobs of us

    This is also the stage at which the most aggressive language policies will need to be pursued. English will need to be gradually de-Romanicized — a process which honestly must begin in the earliest stages. I have ideas about how it could be done, but I won't go into those now. Great care must be taken to meld Scandinavian, Dietsch, and English without letting any overpower the other. At first, pursuing broad community trilingualism might be a good goal. From there, promoting the free and rather massive movement of Germanic people across Germanic borders would be necessary to get large-scale intermixing of native speakers of the three varieities. In time, the differences would diffuse quite nicely throughout the system, and because of the genetic similarity of the various languages and the widespread trilingualism, they would eventually become all mutually intelligible. I plan to discuss this linguistic re-merging in greater detail in a thread in the linguistics forum in the next few days.

    As an interim measure at this stage, and even perhaps earlier, it might not be inappropriate to establish a multi-state Germanic Council (shall we call it the Althing?). I would seat it in Reykjavik, which would be, I think, distant enough and obscure enough in relation to places like Copenhagen, Berlin, Amsterdam, London, and Washington to allow for equality among the various Germanic states. It would also be a fairly centrally located seat for the new union. The danger here is the possibility of it becoming just another Brussels in the minds of the people. That is why we need so badly to begin at a social level before anything overtly political is done. A nation can unite only if the people believe it exists.

    All this would definitely be a lot of work. I don't think the entire process could be achieved within less than two centuries without some kind of huge external impetus (such as, perhaps, the creation of a new Islamic Caliphate). We have a lot to overcome in building a Germanic nation, but the rewards could be very great. There could also be strong negative side effects to such a move, and we would have to consider those very carefully.

    Thank you for reading. Getting through my long ramblings can be quite a bit of work in itself But now that you're warmed up and ready to work ( ), please write your ideas about how we could develop a pan-Germanic nation. Or if you think we shouldn't even try, please tell us what would make it an undesirable move. Or if you just want to show me why my idea would fail, please do so, but be specific. You don't have to be as long-winded as I have been if you don't want, or you can talk and talk talk. But let's get some ideas flowing about this — that is where any movement like this has to begin.

  2. #2
    "Laird of Glendonwyn" "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Jibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    Thursday, November 24th, 2005 @ 06:57 AM
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    GPS: N 40* 58.741', W 74* 7.137'
    Gender
    Age
    38
    Religion
    Nazerene/Christian
    Posts
    58
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Thumbs Up Re: Building a Pan-Germanic Nation

    Leofric,

    From your earlier posting:

    Where do you think help will come from?
    I have no idea...

    To tell you the truth, I'm so dismayed at my own country's behaviour, that I can't even think about it. My discust, with my own people, has caused me to be entirely depressed. I can hardly function, on a day-to-day basis.

    But I do know this, it must come from the European Community. United States politicking, should not be involved in a European pan-Germanic nation.

    We've already become, overly involved, in other countries, worldwide.

    There is much more work, to be done at home.

    With that said, I'm not sure that there is much more, that I can give to this conversation. I'm not European, and I don't really understand the European mindset. I can't even attempt to, because I've never set foot outside of my country's political boundries.

    I can't really understand, what life is like, in Europe.

    Much less, what Europeans believe, to be better for their people.

    In fact, I would even attempt to bullsh*t you, into believing that what I have to say, is important.

    That would be entirely American of me, and to tell you the truth, I'm finished with my people, and their arrogant ways.

    I only wish, that I had the funds, to move to a European nation of my choosing.

  3. #3
    Spirits on a cross in a stormy sea Slå ring om Norge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Norwegian
    Ancestry
    Norway
    Y-DNA
    Anti-HAL 9000
    Country
    Norway Norway
    State
    Nordland Nordland
    Location
    All Norway
    Gender
    Politics
    Patriotism
    Posts
    1,445
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: Building a Pan-Germanic Nation

    HEI ALLESAMMEN!

    A few points which I’ve forgotten in a hurry:

    IMO the Germanic nationalisms of today are predominantly, if not exclusively, directed against immigration from afar as well as against our respective ZOG’s. I am talking from own experience. Any negative emotions towards other Germanic nations are negligible or non-existent among the general population.
    I am sure that a proposal of an exclusively Germanic Union would be met overwhelmingly positively. I am no less certain that many or all neighbouring nations would be more than happy to join as associate members, the conditions being dictated by OUR representatives.

    Thus – my answer to the question of nationalisms vs. Germanicism is a grin: There is no such conflict. In the face of SUCH enemies as we have now, anything else vanishes.
    One of the Members mentioned feeling at home in Germanic countries. I have the same feeling, no matter where I meet a small or large locality populated by Germanics. It might be a diminutive town in Midwestern USA or a town in Argentina, not to mention the White parts of the cities in South Africa.

    I am mentioning this, because having become a powerful Germanic Union, we might create a Germanic Commonwealth, i.e. the Empire proper and a network of Privileged Germanic Towns, a sort of new Hanseatic Union. These distant places would undoubtedly gravitate naturally towards the Center. This Commonwealth might supplant the now surreal British Commonwealth (no offence intended).

    Further, I implore you all to stay realistic in your plans for the future. Politics is an art of the possible. A realistic approach takes into account real circumstances and possibilities and thus becomes realizable.

    Because the close relations between Germanics is a very natural tendency, not least due to the outside pressures and inside enemies we all face and dread in equal measure, such a union is a very real possibility. And certainly, it is a more or less subconscious feeling of all Germanics who have IQ above, say, 80.
    Such a Union can be achieved only if our internal enemies shall succumb to our Will. Their power is enormous at present. Against them works just about nothing, except our Will and our feeling of being of One Stock..
    Against us – just about everything: demographics, economy, education, propaganda, or shortly – ZOG and the Brownies.

    Any attempt at moving in the right direction has to be a result of a long, careful, well-planned and discrete political work, collecting funds and building a parallel organization/administration/state(s). Collecting weapons would be extremely risky and I suggest that we’ll have to think in the categories of a bloodless (even though profound) change of regime. Sort of Ukraine, done simultaneously in Germanic Lands in Europe, USA, Canada and Australia/NZ (maybe even – South Africa). Maybe even better – a sort of January 1933 on continental scale.

    Such a coordination seems impossible, and maybe is. But I can’t forget that our enemy is formidable and more entrenched than ever in the history of Mankind. Maybe a few central states in the heart of Europe could make a head-start, defying even US bases in Germany. A mass movement in most of Europe might intimidate US initially and a previously prepared propaganda materials should be distributed on massive scale among US population to compel the shabes-President to think twice before intervention.

    I also think that offending our neighbours would be a great mistake. At least so long as we are weaker than out potential opponents. Nobody is interested in replying WW2 with even greater loss of Germanic lives and maybe our final destruction. Our neigbours must not serve as spring-boards for US (and maybe their own – Poland? France?) intervention. It would be better to cultivate good contacts with the neighbouring nationalisms. After all, their enemies are identical with ours. And everybody would benefit in case of victory.

    The most painful problem - Poland’s borders must NOT, under any circumstances, be our priority. Not just because the Big Three stand behind this decision, but we mustn’t have an enemy and a potential US base just 60 km from Berlin.
    However horrible the 1945-6 was for countless Germans, we mustn’t begin Our Fight with this. The same with Boehmen/Mahren.
    I know it’s controversial but IT IS NOT LAND which is our first priority, but victory and freedom to live and multiply.
    Sooner or later, we’ll be offered land. Sooner or later we’ll be powerful enough to ask politely and get what we want, peacefully or otherwise, without loosing our main goal.

    Please, as a nationalist with some practical experience, I am asking you to think realistically and act suchwise.

    I reckon that the time has come. The ZOG Empire’s got bogged in Middle East and is having internal problems. And the time is against us.

    Some answers:

    Tactical nukes might be used by France, strategic ones – by ZOG Proper.
    Of course, America’s core is as white as snow and as WASP as wasp. It has always been so and, hopefully, will be once again.


    Scandinavs would be as happy as any Germanics to get together, if maintaining their respective peculiarities and freedoms vs. each other be assured.
    Dissolving EU is, alas, not a question of time alone. It requires active action, as ZOG wouldn’t give up what it already achieved. Don’t forget that EU is a mechanism to 1) Erasing nations, 2) Depriving us of our freedoms and remains of peoples’ influence on power elite and creating an even more powerful, ZOG-European one 3) Inundating Europe with Brownies (as immigrants, asylum-seekers, Turks).
    France is to be treated with caution.


    Nationalism is not another –ism but a gut-feeling.


    Jibby: if your insomnia was caused by thinking about our glorious Germanic future or by passionate, yet monogamic, sex, it’s not a plague but a blessing.

    And Jibby – don’t forget that what White people tell in public is not what they think and feel. And getting a quiet movement started, simultaneously with that in Europe is not an impossibility. I understand your pessimism, I don’t doubt a second it’s well-grounded. Yet, I think ZOG can be successfully challenged if it be done in many places at the same time. They are strong but only if allowed to focus on one problem at a time. A many-focused threat is bound to demolish their system like a house of (marked) cards.


    I agree with Maedchen that ANY allusions to NS must be most carefully avoided. Or movement will be called names, one of the worst being – Nazis. We musn’t help the enemy propaganda, which was very successful in smearing NS. After all, we don’t even need to mention or use anything from this drawer. Our ideas have more than enough nourishment from the present dangers, enemies and possibilities. Looking for good cues from the period 1923 – 38 (maybe even later, but I’m not sure) may be useful but – by Jove ! Quietly….


    Excellent point about the need of DEFINING ourselves, Ole. Again – anything even remotely reminding of NS or Germanisn must be avoided as plague. What about a “Society/Movement/Party of Central European Peoples”? Neutral, non-exclusive (theoretically, of course) and inviting for non- European Whites….


    and stupid when they should take the opportunity to say, "yes, I do hate somethings, I hate the liberal capitalists that are destroying my country, I hate miscegenation, I hate Islamification.”

    …No Ole, not stupid – they know well these words will get cut out……
    Of course, America used to be first and foremost a nation of the Bold. I consider it self evident…..


    Heimat, land, IS important, but living blood is vigtigere. Germanic land is where we are. Breslau is not a living Germanic city, as It used to, but a Hamburg, N. Carolina probably is. Don’t let us get blinded by the fetish of land. It was our doom in the past. It’s not that important, after all in 2005. (But Breslau will return.)


    “STIRPES” is, in my opinion, led by people with a little too little sense of humour and a bit too much kinda staged pride. I don’t recommend.


    Stuyvesant proved too weak for “them” THEN! And it was….350 years ago! The time when Europe was the Center of the World. Just look at our odds now….


    Jibby, your last entry about Koreans reminded me of something important. Already A. H. recognized the importance of a kind of alliance with the Yellow Race. Then it was Japan, the only viable yellow power. Does any of you imagine how prevalent the visceral hate of all ZOGgy is in Japan? You’ll be surprised and happier. Try to google “Japan and J…s” or something like that. They might become our tactical, if not strategic, partners, in the name of anti-zogism. They know perfectly well who lured them into war in 1905, in WW2, and who is holding their shackles. They really do.


    Btw. Any self-respecting country has expelled “them” at some time, for some time. For Russia (yes, it was self-respecting too, before 1917) this exercise ended in tragedy, oceans of blood and returning to a distant moral and cultural past. For Spain….well, a little better. Congrats.


    We, Scandinavs know perfectly well we are close, without any Bigger Brother exercising his power over us. We understand each other well enough and even use a sort of “Scandinavian language” talking with one from another country. The “only” thing keeping us NOW from coalescing is zogs and shabesgoyim (ZOG-SGs). And – you are all velkomne in Norge, det er klart! Og course, some good propaganda would help, but we see the world and our enemies pretty identically. No enforcement would be necessary. Actually, there exists an organization, now largely asleep, called Nordisk Raad (read “Rod”), maning Nordic Council and much has been harmonized long before EU came into being.


    I have read Leofric*s ideas and like most of them. The short version would be : “Germanics, the wretched people of the earth - unite !” – from bottom up. The problem being: zogs don’t sleep. Their propaganda/spying system would quash any such bud. Do we have enough patriots? If we do – why so precious little is going on? Is this all just sweet dreams or do we need another 20-50 million Turks on our heads to wake up – or die?


    JIBBY!!!! You seem to be really, clinically depressed (by way of racial discrimination). And I am saying it as a doctor, which I am. In order to restore you, I would recommend a natural, ethnical “Prozac”: a 4 week stay in Norway, preferably in a smaller town. Here, you’ll load up your European and Germanic pride, I can assure you about that:

    No blacks, no Koreans, no nobody but nice, quiet, steady, proud, intelligent, thrifty folk living like an extended family. If you see it, you’ll understand what a value Germanism really is. You’ll get instantly healthy. And vaccinated for your trip back, if you choose to ( after all – who will pull the US out of the shit if not people like you?).

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Last Online
    Sunday, February 25th, 2007 @ 10:29 AM
    Subrace
    nordiſch-weſtiſch
    Location
    Deutſchland
    Gender
    Family
    Single
    Politics
    Volk und Raſſe
    Posts
    1,626
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Post Re: Building a Pan-Germanic Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Leofric
    [...] as we all know, the Germans of the 18th century did not see themselves as Germans, but as Bavarians, Saxons, Prussians, and so forth. Even though they spoke the same language and shared many traditions, customs, and world views, they did not think that anything like a German nation existed. Only through the concerted effort of authors, artists, linguists, musicians, essayists, speakers, merchants, and other folks devoted to German nationalism were they able to create the idea of a German nation in the minds and hearts of the people. This is an important point: before their work, the concept of "the German nation" was ludicrous to almost every German. Since their work, that concept's validity is unquestioned.

    [...] ever so much more so than it was for the German nationalists who spent the 19th century creating a German nation almost ex nihilo.
    This is all very wrong.

    Actually, the Holy Roman Empire was usually called "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation" already since around 1500.

    And the emergence of a supra-tribal German consciousness and identity of Bavarians, Saxons etc. as such happened even further back in Ottonian-Salian times under the roof of the Eastern Frankish empire, the eastern, Germanic bankrupt’s estate of the Carolingian empire.

    It also was already in Middle Ages not without political-"ideological" relevance: With the 11th century the concept of a renovatio imperii was dropped and then replaced by the model of the translatio imperii which stayed a constant element of imperial theory—and which, regarding the Holy Roman Empire, was the idea that the Roman empire was transferred (at last) to the Germans, that the Germans were the bearers of the empire. If one seriously believes that the German nation was an only 200 years old "invention" then one will be surprised how "Wilhelmine"-"nationalistic" already people like Otto von Freising, Alexander von Roes or Walter von der Vogelweide could sound ...

    The imperial name got the addition "of German nation" around 1500 because of the Christian-universal demand behind the imperial idea fading and a push and evolvement of early modern nationalism taking place; moreover, because the actual power of the emperor got limited to the northern-Alpine core part of the empire, the German kingdom, and the difference between king and emperor, kingdom and empire became blurred.

    Just as one example for the existence of the German nation before late modern times:

    In his election treaty of 1519, Charles V pledges himself that he shoulders the imperial honour and dignity "dem heiligen reich zu ern und umb der cristenheit und Deutscher nacion, auch gemains nutz willen" ("to the honour of the Holy Empire and to the, also common, advantage of Christendom and German nation");
    that he shall and will erect and present a regiment with "fromen, annemblichen, tapfern, verstendlichen, redlichen personen Teutscher nation" ("pious, pleasant, brave, understanding, honest persons of German nation");
    that he shall and will always leave "die Teutsch nation, das hailig Römisch reiche und die churfursten, als die vordristen gelider desselben, auch ander fursten, grafen, herren und steende" ("the German nation, the Holy Roman Empire and the electors, as its primary elements, also other princes, counts, nobles and ranks") in their dignities, rights and powers;
    that he shall and will "keinen reichstag ausserhalb des reichs Deutscher nation furnemen oder ausschreiben" ("arrange and proclaim no imperial diet outside of the empire of German nation");
    that he shall and will assign "unser kunigliche und des reichs empter am hof und sonst im reiche auch mit kainer andern nation dan geborn Teutschen" ("our royal and the empire's offices at court and elsewhere in the empire with no other nation than born Germans");
    that he shall and will "in schriften und handlungen des reichs kain ander zunge oder sprach gebrauchen lassen, wann die Teutsch oder Lateinisch zung" ("let use in writings and actions of the empire no other tongue or language than the German or Latin tongues");
    that he shall and will give no new customs "dieweil Teutsch nation und das heilig Römisch reich zu wasser und zu lande zum höchsten vor damit besweret" ("as long as the German nation and the Holy Roman Empire are on water and land highest burdened with it");
    that he shall and will himself "ins reich Teutscher nation persondlich fugen" ("personally betake to the empire of German nation") and use "auch unser kuniglich residenz, anwesen und hofhaltung in dem heiligen Römischen reich Deutscher nation" ("also our royal residence, estate and court in the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation") as much as possible.

    (All quotes after Geschichte in Quellen, ed. By Wolfgang Lautemann and Manfred Schlenke, vol. II: Renaissance – Glaubenskämpfe – Absolutismus, Munich 1966, 109-112.)

    Or this here. From an answer of emperor Maximilian to the imperial ranks in 1510:

    Dann wa das nit beschehe, oder ichts darin gemyndert werden sollt, wer nit allain kays. maj., sondern auch dem reych und allen Tewtschen mercklicher nachthayl, auch schmach und schympff. Es were auch irer maj. und dem reych kainswegs zu gedulden, dann wa die Venediger ainichen flecken auff dem landt behalten sollten, mueßten ir maj., das reych Tewtscher nacion und unser aller nachkhomen alle zeyt in sorgen und gefärlichait gegen inen stehen [...].

    (Frankfurts Reichscorrespondenz nebst andern verwandten Aktenstücken von 1376-1519, ed. by Johannes Janssen, vol. II: Aus der Zeit Kaiser Friedrichs III. bis zum Tode Kaiser Maximilians I. 1440-1519, Freiburg i. Br. 1872, 798.)


    ["Because if this didn’t happen or something would be reduced here, not only to His Imperial Majesty but also to all Germans there would be noticeable harm, also dishonour. It would also not to be tolerated to His Majesty and to the empire, because if the Venetians kept some part of the land, His Majesty, the empire of German nation and all our descendants had always to stand against them in concerns and danger ..."]

    Same book, page 553. The emperor in 1492:

    Das uns, dem heiligen reiche, euch und allen Dewtschen, auff die all ander frombd nacion ir mercken haben, ein solich ewig lasster, smah und verdrucken brecht, das vorher nie mer verhoret were. Solichem wir als Romischer keyser dem heiligen reiche, euch und allen stenden Dewtscher nacion zu eren und behaltung alt hergebrachter freyheit furzukamen schuldig und gantz begirlich und geneigt sein, und lieber seligklich von dieser welt scheiden, dann einem solichen unkristenlichen snoden handl ungestrafft und das heilige reich und Dewtsche nacion in disen lesterlichen und unwiderbringlichen vall bey unser regierung wachsen lassen wollten

    ["That on us, the Holy Empire, you and all Germans, whereto all other pious nations pay their attention, such an eternal burden, dishonour and suppression breaks, which was neber heard before. We as Roman emperor owe to the honour of the Holy Empire, you and all ranks of German nation and preservation of traditional freedom to prevent such and are very desirous and willing to do so and rather to depart this world blessedly than that we would let arise such an un-Cristian disdainful affair with impunity and the Holy Empire and the German nation into this calumnious and irreversible fall during Our rule."]

    In this source edition from which these arbitrary quotes are taken—the imperial correspondence of Frankfurt from 1440 until 1519—similar can be found all over. This work just as example. It wasn’t really a secret in that time that Germans were Germans.

    Certainly one can state that nationalism had a different quality and relevance in the modern "ages of the masses" since the French Revolution—but that nations had no importance at all or even that national awareness didn’t exist before is simply not true. I’ve read more than once remarks by present-day medievalists (and German historians are today far from being nationalist) that those sociologists etc. who claim that there were no nations and no German nation already in Middle Ages simply don’t know the sources ...
    Last edited by Nordgau; Saturday, October 15th, 2005 at 02:24 PM.
    Man ſei Held oder Heiliger. In der Mitte liegt nicht die Weisheit, ſondern die Alltäglichkeit.

    SPENGLER

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Nordgau For This Useful Post:


  6. #5
    "Laird of Glendonwyn" "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Jibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    Thursday, November 24th, 2005 @ 06:57 AM
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    GPS: N 40* 58.741', W 74* 7.137'
    Gender
    Age
    38
    Religion
    Nazerene/Christian
    Posts
    58
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: Building a Pan-Germanic Nation

    Astorp,

    JIBBY!!!! You seem to be really, clinically depressed (by way of racial discrimination). And I am saying it as a doctor, which I am. In order to restore you, I would recommend a natural, ethnical “Prozac”: a 4 week stay in Norway, preferably in a smaller town. Here, you’ll load up your European and Germanic pride, I can assure you about that:

    No blacks, no Koreans, no nobody but nice, quiet, steady, proud, intelligent, thrifty folk living like an extended family. If you see it, you’ll understand what a value Germanism really is. You’ll get instantly healthy. And vaccinated for your trip back, if you choose to ( after all – who will pull the US out of the shit if not people like you?).
    I've been clinically depressed, since I was horribly rejected by an American whore... uh er... I mean girl.

    Norway sounds good... now for the funds...

  7. #6
    Spirits on a cross in a stormy sea Slå ring om Norge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Norwegian
    Ancestry
    Norway
    Y-DNA
    Anti-HAL 9000
    Country
    Norway Norway
    State
    Nordland Nordland
    Location
    All Norway
    Gender
    Politics
    Patriotism
    Posts
    1,445
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: Building a Pan-Germanic Nation

    What you need, Jib, is a cheap econo class ticket to Gardemoen Airport in Oslo. Then - (depending on funds available) - you take a bus or a plane to Molde. This is not very far from Oslo, so bus is not an impossibility.

    What you need in Molde is a little, Light tent plus all "greier" to tent life. Food is more expensive than in the US but if you stick to supermarkets, you can cook a fine dinner every day for a few bucks.

    Then, you can put your tent wherever you wish in the woods, even on top of a nearby mountain with the most fantastic view to the Molde Fjord.

    Then, enjoy the town and, subsequently, go and wander in the fjell - sorry - mountains.

    This is about as Nordic and as beautiful as is necessary to cure you and forget the lady and load your batteries for, maybe, the rest of you life.

    I cannot guarentee I'll be in the neighbourhood, but chances are I visit the area when you are there.

    Velkommen i Norge!

    http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel...ide-Molde.html
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Slå ring om Norge; Saturday, October 15th, 2005 at 11:29 AM.

  8. #7
    "Laird of Glendonwyn" "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Jibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    Thursday, November 24th, 2005 @ 06:57 AM
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    GPS: N 40* 58.741', W 74* 7.137'
    Gender
    Age
    38
    Religion
    Nazerene/Christian
    Posts
    58
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Tired Trips To Norway: Priceless

    Astorp,

    From what I can gather, from Scandinavia Airlines:

    $1097.00 USD

    This includes the round-trip airfare, from my soon-to-be-new place of residence, St. Petersburg, Florida.

    It would be one hectic day, from Tampa Bay International, to Chigago O'Hare, to Stockholm Arlanda, to Oslo Airport.

    Then, from Oslo Airport, to Molde.

    Then, a month later, the same thing, in reverse...

    Molde, to Oslo Airport.

    Then something totally different:

    Olso Airport, to Copenhagen, to Washington Dulles International, to Tampa Bay International.

    Why couldn't the first flight be less confusing, like the return?

    It's like 24 hours, or more, of flying, in coach... which is like steerage, for airline passengers.

    Yay! Now what?

    I'm guessing that I'll need, at least, another $1,000.00 USD, just to survive, for a month!

    So now, were up to $2,097.00 USD, for the trip.

    Okay, so then there's money for souvenirs:

    Add $500.00 USD.

    So, now were up to $2,597.00 USD...

    Wow, to tell you the truth, that isn't all that expensive, when you consider that round-trip airfare, on the Concorde, cost you $10,000.00 USD! And then you had to come up with the money, for the extra expenses!

    Hmmmmmm, I may think about this. My move to Florida, will set me back for a little while. Maybe, I will be able to do it by next summer...

    We shall see, what becomes of me!

  9. #8
    Spirits on a cross in a stormy sea Slå ring om Norge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Norwegian
    Ancestry
    Norway
    Y-DNA
    Anti-HAL 9000
    Country
    Norway Norway
    State
    Nordland Nordland
    Location
    All Norway
    Gender
    Politics
    Patriotism
    Posts
    1,445
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: Building a Pan-Germanic Nation

    Make it simpler, then, by flying to Stockholm, enjoying the city (it's woth your while) and then busing to some Swedish town to the North. Everything is cheaper in Sweden but you'll not see such views.

    Still, 100x better than prozac, whatever the ethiology of this depression of yours.
    Last edited by Slå ring om Norge; Saturday, October 15th, 2005 at 01:14 PM.

  10. #9
    "Laird of Glendonwyn" "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Jibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    Thursday, November 24th, 2005 @ 06:57 AM
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    GPS: N 40* 58.741', W 74* 7.137'
    Gender
    Age
    38
    Religion
    Nazerene/Christian
    Posts
    58
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Exclamation Re: Building a Pan-Germanic Nation

    In fact, I would even attempt to bullsh*t you, into believing that what I have to say, is important.
    There is a grammatic error in this, that might make a difference, to some people.

    It should be:

    In fact, I wouldn't even attempt to bullsh*t you, into believing that what I have to say, is important.
    Zwah; verb

    1. To become insanely enraged.
    2. To become insanely enraged and destroy physical objects.
    3. The act of stompin' down the (insert perfidious people here).

    [A word that was originally coined by Joseph Weber, in an attempt to describe his father's illogical and quite possibly insane, German temper.]

    See also: Zwahed and Zwahing

    Emoticon:

  11. #10
    New Member Ardaric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Online
    Sunday, January 8th, 2012 @ 02:33 AM
    Ethnicity
    Teutonic
    Ancestry
    Teuton
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Gender
    Religion
    Atheist
    Posts
    3
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    How Do You Specifically Envision a Germanic Nation-State?

    Formal name:
    Informal name:
    Territoy:
    Capital:
    Official language:
    System of government:
    Flag:
    Currency:
    National hero:
    National animal:
    National anthem:
    National motto:
    National insignia:
    Allies:

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 203
    Last Post: 1 Week Ago, 03:19 AM
  2. Pan-Germanic America: Defining an American Pan-Germanic Identity
    By DanseMacabre in forum The United States
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 4 Weeks Ago, 04:45 PM
  3. The French-German Borderlands: Borderlands and Nation-Building in the 19th and 20th Centuries
    By Ahnenerbe in forum Germanic Diaspora, Enclaves & Influences
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016, 10:50 AM
  4. Was This Building Designed by a Germanic?
    By Wulfram in forum Visual Arts & Aesthetics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Friday, November 12th, 2010, 04:33 PM
  5. Death of Obama's America: Building a New Nation
    By CharlesMartel in forum The United States
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: Saturday, October 9th, 2010, 02:46 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •