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Thread: Islam, the Only Way for Africans?

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    Post Islam, the Only Way for Africans?

    I have put much thought into this recently and I have come to the conclusion that Islam is the only savior for Africans. Historically speaking the only sub-saharan high culture was timbuktu (mansa musa), which was an Islamic society. Islam seems to be the only thing that instills righteousness and discipline into them (the majority of African Christians are undisciplined).
    Ex. Malcolm X, Louis Farrakhan, etc.
    This observation is from an American standpoint so I don't know alot about Africans from the home continent, but the impression I get is that beyond protestant superstitious Christianity (voodoo as well) is mostly spread.
    What do you think? Is Islam the only thing that can create some sort of African high culture?
    "People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use" - Soren Kierkegaard

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    Post Re: Islam, the only way for Africans?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbuktu
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_t...very_in_Africa

    Educate yourself. All those white, christian europeans were the ones who destroyed these african and islamic cultures.


    Quote Originally Posted by anti-climacus
    I have put much thought into this recently and I have come to the conclusion that Islam is the only savior for Africans. Historically speaking the only sub-saharan high culture was timbuktu(mansa musa), which was an Islamic society. Islam seems to be the only thing that instills righteousness and discipline into them (the majority of African Christians are undisciplined).
    Ex. Malcolm X, Louis Farrakhan, etc.
    This observation is from an American standpoint so I don't know alot about Africans from the home continent, but the impression I get is that beyond protestant superstitious Christianity (voodoo as well) is mostly spread.
    What do you think? Is Islam the only thing that can create some sort of African high culture?

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    Post AW: Islam, the only way for Africans?

    Quote Originally Posted by anti-climacus
    Is Islam the only thing that can create some sort of African high culture?
    Yes, if by that you mean a homogenized African culture where tribal distinctions are obliterated. Islam is a leveler of local and national cultures, not a builder - except of its own authoritarian theocracy. Especially in its Golden Age.

    Even so, don't expect a new golden age of high Islamic culture any time soon, if the corrupt regimes of the Islamic world and the rampant ignorance of their mullah-inspired populations are any indication. Female circumcision, anyone? Sending children to blow themselves up, along with school busses and hospitals? Sheer barbarism.

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    Post Re: AW: Islam, the only way for Africans?

    Female circumsion is a tribal custom from certain areas in East Africa and predates Islam. Some Christians and Jews in Africa adhere to the old tradition.

    "In Africa the history of or reasons for ritual genital surgeries in females have long been lost. The fact remains that African followers of the major world religions practice these customs. Male circumcision is an absolute requirement of Islam and Judaism, whereas female circumcision is not even mentioned in any religious text. However, scholars of African cultures would testify that on our continent traditional and tribal rituals commonly supersede religion."

    Nahid Toubia, M.D.
    Research Action and Information Network for the Bodily Integrity of Women

    http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/332/3/188#R1-B

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmund
    Female circumcision, anyone?

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    Post AW: Re: AW: Islam, the only way for Africans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenlivet
    Female circumsion is a tribal custom from certain areas in East Africa and predates Islam.
    Yes indeed, and one that is sanctioned by the Prophet himself in various hadith. For example:

    Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah:
    A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 5251)
    The practice was apparently common among Arabs prior to Islam. It was also practiced by Muslims, as related in this hadith on the definition of lawful intercourse:

    Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab from Said ibn al-Musayyab that Umar ibn al-Khattab and Uthman ibn Affan and A'isha, the wife of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, used to say, "When the circumcised part touches the circumcised part, ghusl is obligatory." (Book 2, Number 2.19.73; see also No. 74 and 75) Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar used to say, "When the circumcised part passes the circumcised part, ghusl is obligatory." (Book 2, Number 2.19.77)
    In both of these statements, Muhammad clearly views female circumcision as normal and expected.

    Though opinions vary among Islamic scholars, there is a strong consensus is that female circumcision is required by tradition, though not by the Qur'an. From the Shafi'i manual of religious law:

    Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (this is called HufaaD).
    But regardless of how or where the practice of female circumcision originated, my point is that it is a common one throughout the Islamic world and is a basic de facto element of Islamic culture. So instead of it being restricted to those parts of Africa where it is, as you correctly point out, more or less indigenous, Africans can look forward to having it spread across their entire continent as part of their envisioned islamicization.

    One of many references: http://www.answering-islam.org/Index...cumcision.html.

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    Post Re: Islam, the only way for Africans?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicholas
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbuktu
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_t...very_in_Africa

    Educate yourself. All those white, christian europeans were the ones who destroyed these african and islamic cultures.
    First off; If you are "educating" yourself with wikipedia I suggest finding a more credible source (a book perhaps?), as it can be edited by viewers. Your statement is a red herring to the subject. Barbarism and what other despicable acts in western eyes aside, Islam is the only driving force that has created some sort of culture in Africa (apart from archaic tribes). Feel free to refute it, I would like to see what you come up with. (Christian Ethiopia)
    Last edited by anti-climacus; Monday, October 10th, 2005 at 01:53 PM.
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    Post Re: AW: Islam, the only way for Africans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmund
    Yes, if by that you mean a homogenized African culture where tribal distinctions are obliterated. Islam is a leveler of local and national cultures, not a builder
    Of course I mean homogenized African Culture, Sub-Saharans are inferior to the rest of the world, preserving their tribal culture is not something of interest to me. Creating some sort of Government that allows for self-suffiency is. I'm a bit more worried about Islam spreading in Europe via immigrants and liberals than I am in the Congo.
    "People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use" - Soren Kierkegaard

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    Post Re: Islam, the only way for Africans?

    Quote Originally Posted by anti-climacus
    Barbarism and what other despicable acts in western eyes aside, Islam is the only driving force that has created some sort of culture in Africa (apart from archaic tribes))
    You're leaving out evidence that goes against you're hypothesis....not much of a researcher are you?

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    Post Re: Islam, the only way for Africans?

    Zimbabwe, zulus, Abessinia, Hausa, Benin, Mali... sure there's been African culture, but in Western eyes not high culture. No African culture has been historically universalist (which is what makes it a "high culture" in Eurasian eyes, one reason is the crowdness of Eurasian continent - and the remoteness of Africa), but rather particularist - tribal. Isn't this what many of you people want with the European world too?

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    Post Re: Islam, the only way for Africans?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicholas
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbuktu
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_t...very_in_Africa

    Educate yourself. All those white, christian europeans were the ones who destroyed these african and islamic cultures.
    Have you critically read that piece about the "civilization" of Timbuktu you linked to? The so-called "university" was nothing more than a disorganized bunch of imams teachings youngsters in the mosque courtyard or even just their home. This "university" had no central administration, student registers, or prescribed courses of study. The primary course subject was the Qur'an. By these standards, any rural village with a reverent providing a Bible study has a "university". It seems to me the whole article is biased and deliberately paints an all-too-pretty picture of old Timbuktu.

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