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Thread: Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

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    Question Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

    Hello all!
    I'm writing a research paper on the differences and similarities between Ancient and Modern Germanic Heathenry. I was wondering if there are any questions any of you would like addressed if you happened to be reading such a paper. I want to write it in a way that will both inform people who don't even know what Heathenry is, and offer some insights into questions that have plagued those who know all about it. If any of you could share with me some research questions I'd really appreciate it. And if any of you have suggestions as to where I could find good sources I'd appreciate that too. Thanks a lot!

    P.S. I also need to "interview a professional in the field," but I don't know any professionals in this field, and have no idea how to get in contact with one. Any ideas? Thanks again.

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    Post Re: Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

    Yes, I have a few questions:

    1. How much of Germanic Religion is a carry over from Celtic times?
    2. How much of Celtic/Germanic Religion is a carry over from Megalithic times?
    3. How real is the split between the Asier and Vannar Gods?
    A. Does this have any temporal significance?
    B. Does this have any cultural significance?
    4. How do the Rokker Gods (see thread on this somewhere) fit into the pantheon of the other Germanic Gods?
    5. What was the real role of the Armanen?
    A.Role in binding the culture.
    B.Role in religion itself.
    6. What is the relationship of the Black Sun, called Santur by Willigut, to the other aspectes of Germanic Religion?
    A. Does the Black Sun have any modern adherents?
    7. How is it that modern practitioners with no cultural connection to the past such as von List and Marby have become engrained in the modern Germanic Religious thought?
    8. What is the relationship of the mother-goddess-Isis religion expounded by Norber Juergen-Ratthofer to the ancient Germanic Religion? (He claims one.)

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    Post Re: Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

    If you want to interview a "professional" I suggest you mail David Lane or other members of, The Order. I know he's at some max-security prison in Colorado. You can PM April Gaede I believe she has contact information. http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=7336

    The Order are an extreme example of modern heathenry; I'd even venture to call them, "Neo-Berserkers".

    Here's a short piece by David Lane on Odinism,

    http://www.mourningtheancient.com/dl-2.htm

    The New Heathenry seems to be more logically based on a conscious return to the inate psychic harmony of our ancestors.

    From Lane's perspective it is also very reactionary and seen largely as a means to unite Aryans against (an already occurring) genocide.

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    Post Re: Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

    Quote Originally Posted by Solar_Wolff
    How real is the split between the Asier and Vannar Gods?
    I think the Aesir are Indo-European, and the Vaenir pre-Indo-European.

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    Post Re: Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjerre
    If you want to interview a "professional" I suggest you mail David Lane or other members of, The Order. I know he's at some max-security prison in Colorado. You can PM April Gaede I believe she has contact information. http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=7336
    The Order are an extreme example of modern heathenry; I'd even venture to call them, "Neo-Berserkers".
    Here's a short piece by David Lane on Odinism,
    http://www.mourningtheancient.com/dl-2.htm
    The New Heathenry seems to be more logically based on a conscious return to the inate psychic harmony of our ancestors.
    From Lane's perspective it is also very reactionary and seen largely as a means to unite Aryans against (an already occurring) genocide.
    You're kidding, right? Please tell me you are joking because if you think someone like David Lane is any kind of "professional" on the subject you are sadly mistaken.


    One of the largest differences ive noticed between the Ancient and more Modern Pre Christian Norse / Germanic folkway is how we practice. Long ago our most of our ancestors were part of "cults" who honoured / followed / worshiped one diety. For example, a person, family, group or tribe would have Freyr or Thor as their patron gods and not really "bother" with the rest. You would see more of the Kings and other Royalty be followers of Odin while Sailors and Fishermen would feel a closer connection to Njord and Farmers and other country folk would have Thor / Donnar as their patron god. Also in very ancient times the Germanic tribes some believe followed Tiwaz (Tyr) as the Skygod while Wodan (Odin) was the god of death and war. Over time Tiwaz and Wodan kind of "switched roles" so to speak where Wodan was followed and worshiped more as the "Alfather" or father of the Gods while Tiwaz took a "back seat" to Odin / Woden. Today most heathens honour/worship most of the gods and goddesses from the Germanic / Norse pantheon on the different holidays, solstices and equinoxes. My personal patron dietys are Thor and Freyr but I honour all of the Gods of my folk. They all have gifts to give and lessons to teach.


    Another thing is the ritual and "physical" practice, long ago human sacrafices were made to the gods, usually slaves or warriors who reached old age and didn't die in battle. They would willingly give themselfs to be either stabbed to death in a very violent matter as a sacrafice to Tiwaz / Tyr or they would hang themselfs from a tree as a sacrafice to Wodan / Odin, the hanged god. Boars and Horses were sacraficed to Freyr, the blood was used for the blot and the flesh of the boar was later cooked for a feast, this was mostly done during Yule. Today of course we cannot sarcafice humans and in most cases not even a boar due to "Animal Cruelty" laws so we brew mead and use that as our sacrafice to the Aesir and Vanir. There are a lot of differences between what our ancient ancestors followed and the reconstructed path we follow today. I myslef am a traditionalist and I try to do as much in my daily and ritual practice as I can with keeping to the true history of our folkway but of course it's obvious in some cases that just isnt possible.


    If you want a REAL professional id suggest contacting someone like Stephen McNallen, Valgard Murray or James Hjuka Coulter on the matter. People like David Lane know nothing about our true culture, they let their personal beliefs and politics get in the way and distort things. They give all folkish heathens a bad name as hatemongers.

    Godiva, feel free to contact me via private message and we can talk and discuss things, there is a lot of stuff I could type but right now I just cant be arsed . I'll give you a few e-mail contact addresses if you would like.

    Farr heill!!
    E-mail: odalist@gmail.com
    AOL IM: Blood Und Soil

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    Post Re: Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

    Quote Originally Posted by Hveðrungur
    You're kidding, right? Please tell me you are joking because if you think someone like David Lane is any kind of "professional" on the subject you are sadly mistaken.
    Not a professional on real Odinism.

    I just meant a personality who has considerably altered Odinism for his own objectives and is well known.

    People like David Lane and Varg would be interesting to compare to the classic Norse beliefs.
    People like David Lane know nothing about our true culture, they let their personal beliefs and politics get in the way and distort things. They give all folkish heathens a bad name as hatemongers.
    That's why I thought it'd be interesting to contrast them with classic Odinism as part of a larger project.

    I see them as their own modern offshoot cults, like the ones our various ancestors had.

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    Post Re: Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

    Interesting to compare? They HURT our folkway, because of people like them anyone who claims to be a folkish follower of the old ways is automatically called a nazi among other negative terms. They are BAD for bringing our ways back to our folk, they are heathen herpes and do no good for our culture or folk, at least the serious followers of the old pre christian germanic ways.
    E-mail: odalist@gmail.com
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    Post Re: Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

    Quote Originally Posted by Hveðrungur
    Interesting to compare?
    Notice I said "compare" and also "contrast". Please read my posts before replying to them.
    They HURT our folkway, because of people like them anyone who claims to be a folkish follower of the old ways is automatically called a nazi among other negative terms.
    No shit.

    Go onto the ADL website of hate symbols and you'll find all the runes.

    You think she can do a study comparing modern Heathenism to the ancient form without in some way adressing the distorted media views of Odinism? People will always think of the modern freaks unless they are addressed by us.

    You need to read the article I linked to, David Lane sees "WOTAN" as some crazy acronym.

    The modern day cults can be discredited by dedicating a portion of the project to how shallow they are.
    They are BAD for bringing our ways back to our folk, they are heathen herpes and do no good for our culture or folk, at least the serious followers of the old pre christian germanic ways.
    Did I claim otherwise?

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    Post Re: Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

    It has been addressed by folk and trust me I know about the runes. They are even banned in Germany. Why are they banned and on the ADL website? Because of people like Varg Vikernes and David Lane. When I think of Modern Heathenism I dont think of the moronic "racialist" versions, I think of groups like the Asatru Folk Assembly and Odinic Rite who are trying to reconstruct and promote our ancient ways in a folkish yet positive non bigoted light. Interviewing someone like lane wont help realize the difference between modern and ancient heathenism among the germanic people because what they teach / preach / promote .....and this may come as a shock to you.....is NOT heathenism. Giving them a platform for their demended views that only bastardize the folkway our ancestors followed would only hurt us more and lead more people to believe that what they teach and follow is what all heathens follow and believe in. What does a person do when some annoying kid is bothering them on a plane? Do they constantly retaliate to cause the child to act up even more? Or do they ignore them untill they finally shut up and leave the person alone? Think about it, if you're trying to put out a fire do you pour gasoline on it because it looks close enough to be water?

    I think if shes going to write a report on the difference's between Ancient and Modern heathenism, she should go with real cultural differences. The way we celebrate the holidays, ritual, modern beliefs and interpritation of the lore/myths, not the difference between the tru ways today and the ideals and false teachings of some morons who only use said folkway as a means to further promote their own political agenda.

    Like I said, why waste your time adding fuel to a negative fire us tru folkish heathens want to put out? We dont want it to be illegal in 10 years to even wear Mjollnir or talk about our folkway, do we?
    E-mail: odalist@gmail.com
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    Post Re: Ancient vs. Modern Germanic Heathenry

    Hello my beautiful wife!

    I hope your paper is coming along well

    Some questions that I have about modern heathenry that I think you could research (and that perhaps others here could answer) are about demographics:
    • how many practicing heathens are there today?
    • what percentage of contemporary heathens were introduced to the religion by their parents as children?
    • how many (extended) families are involved in heathenry today?
    • where are today's heathens from?
    • are today's heathens a representative cross-section of society, or do they tend to be members of particular segments of society?

    Other questions of this type would also be interesting to get answers to.

    When it comes to ancient heathenry, I guess the first thing I wonder is where you could find good sources to really know how our ancestors practiced their religion. I guess I see religion as being not just what people believe but also how they behave spiritually/religiously. As you know, we have Snorri's Edda, the Poetic Edda, and the Saga of the Volsungs here at home, and they tend to give good information about what our ancestors believed. But as far as knowing how they believed, I think I would want to know where to get that kind of information from a reliable source. Maybe you already know: I have noticed you have a lot of cool library books around the house.

    One thing that might also be helpful, although I'm not certain about how specific the scope of your paper should be, would be a comparison to other ethnic religions — Sikhism, Hinduism, Judaism, and so forth. Goswin_van_Eyck posted a good thread on a world conference of ethnic religions a while back that leads to good information about which religions are ethnic.

    It looks like Hveğrungur has access to a lot of good information. You ought to talk with him about it

    By the way, I'd tell you all of this in real life, but it's on my mind right now and I don't know that it will be when you are working on your paper — plus it's just nice to have it written down so that if you want to use my ideas, you'll be able to look back at them any time you like.

    I love you, and good luck on your paper!

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