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Thread: Goseck: 7,000 years old German Solar Temple predates Stonehenge

  1. #21

    Europe's oldest civilisation and its rondels

    Europe's oldest civilisation and its rondels: the real story


    Jaromír Kovárník, Radan Květ & Vladimír Podborský


    Not long ago a report of the German TV MDR and by David Keys in the British newspaper The Independent (11 June 2005) about the discovery of the 'oldest' civilisation on the European continent dating back to the latest period of the Stone Age (Neolithic) between 4800 and 4600 BC excited the European intellectual public (Antiquity 79: 501). This civilisation, building circular 'temples', is said to have been founded by the descendants of 'nomads from the Danubian lowlands' and after a 'short period of two to three centuries' ceased to exist. The report evoked the impression that it is a recent discovery of German archaeologists.


    But what in fact are we talking about?
    To begin with we should consider very carefully the term 'civilisation', a definition in history assigned to that stage of development when mankind discovered vocal writing; naturally this is not the case of the Neolithic, the stage into which the reported 'civilisation' falls. For all that we may perhaps use this term with certain reservations, especially when we take into consideration the fact that some languages (e.g. French) use the term 'la civilisation' instead of 'archaeological culture'.


    Indeed, after c. 4800/4700 BC a late-Neolithic population with state-of-the-art material and spiritual culture was established in the countries of the central Danubian region (Pannonia, southern and western Slovakia, South Moravia, Lower Austria), in archaeological terminology indicated as people of the Lengyel Culture (after Lengyel in west Hungary). This cultural complex formed the outermost of the Anatolian-Balkan Neolithic zone characterised by advanced agricultural economy and highly developed material and spiritual culture; in particular it had an advanced agronomical practice, abundant assortment of tools made of stone (chipped and also ground and drilled), bone and horn (originally definitely also wooden) and pottery with rich polychromic paintings and mass occurrence of human, particularly female figures - 'Venuses', indicating respect for the Great Goddess - Mother (Mother-Earth). Today the makers of this cultural complex are more frequently thought of as Proto-Indo-Europeans. Several cultures or cultural groups, related chronologically and geographically, were part of the Lengyel domain; one of the most important was the Moravian-Austrian group, in Moravia traditionally indicated as the Moravian painted pottery culture.



    Read further:
    http://antiquity.ac.uk/ProjGall/kvet/index.html

  2. #22

    Re: Europe's oldest civilisation and its rondels

    People usually say a civilization has to exhibit urbanization, writing, specializations in occupation and agriculture. Feel free to add more if some are missing. This Daubian culture is just exactly where it should be in time and space to be an ancestral Indo-European (Aryan) culture. For that reason alone, it is interesting. Just because writing has not been found there doesn't mean it didn't exist there. It is also interesting that we are not far away from the alleged Balkan pyramid.

    In 1969, while in school, an old stone age archaeologist showed the class slides of the Magdalenian in France. These were mostly what is called "living floors". This was the last day of class and so he was letting everything hang out. He showed us several slides of what looked like stone tile surfaces. Of course, it was just well fitted stonework. But, the areas were large and clearly marked as if a wall or fence had once been present. He then put the idea forth that these structures might be reindeer pens. This was a reindeer hunting culture. If this was true, animal husbandry is almost twice as old as previously thought and would put the Magdalenian much closer to the Saami way of life. This is just one interpetation and has never been verified but both this and the early Balkan culture are only one small step away from being something spectacular.

  3. #23
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    Re: Europe's oldest civilisation and its rondels

    Galton's treatment of the problem was sketchy but it provided the initial idea on which others were to build. The most extensive analysis of this kind was carried out by Baker ( 1974). He first set: up twenty one criteria by which the achievements of early civilizations could be judged. These were as follows:
    1. In the ordinary circumstances of life in public places, they cover the greater part of the trunk with clothes.
    2. They keep the body clean and take care to dispose of its waste products.
    3. They do not practice severe mutilation or deformation of the body, except for medical reasons.
    4. They have knowledge of building in brick or stone, if the necessary materials are available in their territory.
    5. Many of them live in towns or cities, which are linked by roads.
    6. They cultivate food-plants.
    7. They domesticate animals and use some of the larger ones for transport (or have in the past so used them), if suitable species are available.
    8. They have knowledge of the use of metals, if these are available.
    9. They use wheels.
    10. They exchange property by tile use of money.
    11. They order their society by a system of laws, which are enforced in such a way that they ordinarily go about their various concerns in times of peace without danger of attack or arbitrary arrest.
    12. They permit accused persons to defend themselves and to bring witnesses for their defence.
    13. They do not use torture to extract information or for punishment.
    14. They do not practice cannibalism.
    15. Their religious systems include ethical elements and are not purely or grossly superstitious.
    16. They use a script (not simply a succession of pictures) to communicate ideas.
    17. There is some facility in the abstract use of numbers, without consideration of actual objects (or in other words, at least a start has been made in mathematics).
    18. A calendar is in use, accurate to within a few days in the year.
    19. Arrangements are made for the instruction or the young in intellectual subjects.
    20. There is some appreciation of the fine arts.
    21. Knowledge and understanding are valued as ends in themselves.

    http://www.geocities.com/race_articl...race_diff.html
    That is assumed to be the features of civilization.
    Could they find evidence in that direction?
    "And God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which they should so anxiously guard, or of which they are to be such good guardians, as of the purity of the race. They should observe what elements mingle in their offspring;..." Plato Politeia

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    Re: Europe's oldest civilisation and its rondels

    Excellent post Horagalles Your avatar is cool, is that you? If so you are lucky!

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    Archaeologists Unearth German Stonehenge

    An olden but golden.

    Archaeologists Unearth German Stonehenge

    German experts on Thursday hailed Europe’s oldest astronomical observatory, discovered in Saxony-Anhalt last year, a “milestone in archaeological research” after the details of the sensational find were made public.


    The sleepy town of Goseck, nestled in the district of Weissenfels in the eastern German state of Saxony-Anhalt shimmers under the brutal summer heat, as residents seek respite in the shade.
    Nothing in this slumbering locale indicates that one of the most significant archaeological discoveries of all times was made here. But this is indeed exactly where archaeologists digging in the region last September stumbled upon what they believe is Europe’s oldest astronomical observatory ever unearthed.
    On Thursday, German experts toasted the discovery as a "milestone in archaeological research" as details of the find were made public. State archaeologist Harald Meller said the site, which is believed to be a monument of ancient cult worship, provided the first insights into the spiritual and religious world of Europe’s earliest farmers. Francois Bertemes of the university of Halle-Wittenberg estimated the site to be around 7,000 years old. He described its significance as "one of the oldest holy sites" discovered in Central Europe.
    Through carbon dating of two arrow heads and animal bones found within the site’s circular compounds, archaeologists have been able to determine the date of the site’s origins. They say that with all likelihood it can be traced back to the period between 5000 and 4800 B.C. If that is the case, it would make the Goseck site the oldest-dated astronomical observatory in Europe.


    Observatory had scientific and religious value



    But it’s not just its age that makes the Goseck location so unusual.

    Compared to the approximately 200 other similar prehistoric mound sites strewn throughout Europe, the Goseck site has striking deviations. Instead of the usual four gates leading into the circular compounds, the Goseck monument has just three. The walled-compound also consists of an unusual formation of concentric rings of man-high wooden palisades. The rings and the gates into the inner circles become narrower as one progresses to the center, indicating perhaps that only a few people could enter the inner-most ring.
    Wolfhard Schlosser of the Ruhr University Bochum believes the site's unique construction indicates that it is indeed one of the earliest examples of an astrological observatory.
    Schlosser, a specialist in astro-archeology, says the southern gates marked the sunrise and sunset of the winter and summer solstice and enabled the early Europeans to determine with accuracy the course of the sun as it moved across the heavens. Schlosser is convinced the site was constructed for the observation of astronomical phenomena such as the movements of the sun, moon and stars, and for keeping track of time. These celestial cycles would have been important for the sowing and harvesting of crops in the early civilization.
    But, Goseck isn’t merely a "calendar construction," Schlosser explains, "but rather is clearly a sacred building." Archeologists have found plenty of evidence to prove that Goseck was a place of prehistoric cult worship. The arrangement of human bones, for instance, is atypical of burial sites, and telltale cut marks on them indicate that human sacrifice was practiced at the site.
    Bertemes says it is not uncommon for such astronomical observatories to function as places of worship and centers of religious and social life.
    The Goseck site, erected by the earliest farming communities between the Stone and Bronze Age, came 3,000 years before the last construction phase of the megaliths of Stonehenge in Great Britain.


    Links between Nebra disc and observatory


    Experts are also drawing parallels between the Goseck mounds and another equally spectacular discovery made in the region. "The formation of the site, its orientation and the marking of the winter and summer solstice shows similarities to the world-famous ‘Nebra disc’ – though the disc was created 2,400 years later," Schlosser says.
    The 3,600-year-old bronze Nebra disc was discovered just 25 kilometers away from Goseck in the wooded region of Nebra and is considered to be the oldest concrete representation of the cosmos. The 32-centimeter disc is decorated with gold leaf symbols that clearly represent the sun, moon and starts. A cluster of seven dots has been interpreted as the Pleiades constellation as it appeared 3,600 years ago. Schlosser believes the formations on the disc were based on previous astrological observations, which could possibly have been made at Goseck.
    Archeologists are certain the observatory with its function of tracking time played a crucial role in a society dominated by the changing seasons. They theorize that both the Goseck observatory and the Nebra disc indicate that astronomical knowledge was tied to a mythological-cosmological world view right from the beginning.


    A Mecca for archeologists

    Archaeologists first took note of the location of the Goseck site after aerial images taken in 1991 showed geometrically arranged earth mounds. But it wasn’t until last year that excavation actually got underway. Because the site is being used as learning material for students at the University of Halle-Wittenberg, it is only open for excavation for a limited number of weeks in the year. Next year a group of students from the University of California at Berkley will have a chance to dig in the site.
    Rüdiger Erben, district administrator of Weissenfels, believes the discovery of the Goseck observatory will probably result in some rather unscientific possibilities. He says he could imagine the site turning into a "Mecca for hobby archaeologists and astronomers."
    Source

    I remember reading about this when it first came to the worlds attention.
    What happened since? Did they find much more to conclude the dig?
    "The only way to get smarter is to play a smarter opponent."

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    Good story. there are many chapters of unwritten Germanic history.

    http://www.lda-lsa.de/himmelsscheibe_von_nebra/
    http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ng...re4/zoom2.html

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    How old are the Ancient German tribes, 2500 B.C.? Or, do these ancient peoples, Bell Beaker or Corded Ware, have close genetic similarity to modern day Germans? I'm not too surprised with the current findings since top soil can be moved over larger stone objects as part of erosion. Many historians like to place the Middle East and North Africa over Central and Northern Europeans to mainly misinform students about our "thieving" of outside technologies. Germanic metal-smiting has been fairly advanced, so metal-smiting has arrived about the same time during early Bronze age, along with invention of the wheel (Central Europe), developing metal weapons, and writings on stones and stone seasonal calendars. I never got caught up in the academic hype of "Barbaric Germans." I think the oldest canoe discovered was found in Holland to this day, like 8000 B.C. So how Barbaric are we, lol?

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