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Thread: There's no such thing as "race"

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    Post There's no such thing as "race"

    Racial classification is arbitrary. Biologically speaking, race is a meaningless concept.

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...SRD-071098.php

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    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prognathous
    Racial classification is arbitrary. Biologically speaking, race is a meaningless concept.

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...SRD-071098.php
    You're going to have to do better than that.
    If you were open-minded, you might not have written off the possibility of race having biological significance, as it does.

    Why do:
    crime rates vary by race
    hormone levels vary by race
    sex habits vary by race
    IQ scores vary by race
    etc.?

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    Race is everything. You want to live in a society like Brazil, or South Africa where 600 people die a day from AIDS?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    You're going to have to do better than that.
    If you were open-minded, you might not have written off the possibility of race having biological significance, as it does.

    Why do:
    crime rates vary by race
    hormone levels vary by race
    sex habits vary by race
    IQ scores vary by race
    etc.?
    You forgot the phrase, "biologically speaking." Even assuming that what you say is true, sex habits, IQ scores, and crime rates are culturally influenced.

    Hormone levels? I never said that all genetic traits are handed out entirely at random. I'm saying that the notion of discrete, separate, and clearly defined groups of genetic characteristics (that is, "races") do not exist. The situation is more like a spectrum and, in fact, a relatively short spectrum. No population exists in a vacuum and, if you go back far enough, all the human populations come from the same place (Africa, approx. 200,000 years ago) anyway.

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    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prognathous
    if you go back far enough, all the human populations come from the same place (Africa, approx. 200,000 years ago) anyway.
    If you go back far enough, all living organisms come from the same place (warm primordial soup somewhere on Earth, approx. 3.7 billion years ago) anyway.

    This does not change the fact that species are different, nor does your assertion change the fact that races are different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Nationalist


    Race is everything. You want to live in a society like Brazil, or South Africa where 600 people die a day from AIDS?
    What does that even mean? Your concept of race seems to be a fuzzy, catch-all term now. The spread of AIDS in Africa and the society in Brazil are both cultural, not racial. There's no evidence that race and culture are synonymous. And, for what it's worth, AIDS has a firm foothold in European populations and a pretty good start on Asian populations, too.

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    Account Inactive Saoirse's Avatar
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    Too freaking ignorant.

    AIDS/HIV is from Negroes/Homosexuals. South Africa was once under White rule, it wasnt having this problem then like today. It's RACE.
    When America was White, there werent all these diseases like today. Guess where sickle cell comes from? NEGROES!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Nationalist
    Too freaking ignorant.

    AIDS/HIV is from Negroes/Homosexuals. South Africa was once under White rule, it wasnt having this problem then like today. It's RACE.
    When America was White, there werent all these diseases like today. Guess where sickle cell comes from? NEGROES!
    What do you mean "AIDS is from Negroes \ Homosexuals"? Did they invent it in a lab? Was it just encoded in their genes? I don't think AIDS sprang forth sui generis from the African or the homosexual populations. They might have been an important vector for the disease, but their heritage had little or nothing to do with it. There's no evidence that Africans (or any particular genetic backgrounds) are more or less susceptible to AIDS. The reasons for widespread AIDS infection in Africa (and for the possible African origin of AIDS) are cultural (eg, sexual promiscuity, unsafe sex, bad health care, poor education, and\or religious practices forbidding contraceptives) and circumstantial. There is no known gene for unsafe sex. And, for the record, "homosexual" isn't a race.

    Are you insinuating that Africans are running around spreading sickle cell anemia? Hee. Sickle cell anemia is a genetic disorder that results from an adaptation to malaria. It's a classic example of a heterozygote advantage. You have the normal form (AA) that's susceptible to malaria, you have the heterozygote form (AS) that has some sickle cells but not too many and thus is more resistant to malaria, and then you have the sickle cell anemia form (SS) that is often fatal. Anyway, the notion that sickle cell anemia is analogous to AIDS (or any communicable disease) is silly. It only occurs when two people with the S allele have a child (ie, people who are of African descent). It would be improbable if not impossible for an African and, say, a European to have a child with sickle cell anemia since the S allele has been bred out of populations without malaria. The child would actually benefit from the coupling with a 50\50 shot at malaria resistence. So, yes, it's a trait found in certain populations, but, no, that isn't evidence for distinct races.

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    I'll have more stuff tommorow.

    Why dont you read My Awakening by David Duke?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    If you go back far enough, all living organisms come from the same place (warm primordial soup somewhere on Earth, approx. 3.7 billion years ago) anyway.

    This does not change the fact that species are different, nor does your assertion change the fact that races are different.
    You're right, common ancestory doesn't necessitate unity, but 200,000 years isn't a very long time. The differences between what you might call "Caucasoid," "Negroid," and "Mongoloid," are relatively superficial. They are all of the same species, they are all recently related, and they all have thoroughly interbred. Differences in body build, skin color, and so on are unimportant. That's thinking in early 20th \ 19th century terms. In terms of genetics, there isn't enough genetic variation between these populations to consider them separate races. Recent anthropology has discounted the notion of human "races" entirely.

    Even in the past, "race" was just a descriptor. If there are such things as races, the notion exists only after the fact. "Races" would just be names for certain clusters of traits that spring up in genetically distant populations. These populations would change over time, becoming more or less similar or changing altogether, and the races themselves would have to be reclassified.

    Furthermore: Even if you were to remove the "purest" of Nordic (or Caucasoid or Aryan or what have you) stock and put them in an isolated community, they would still change from what you started with. The founder effect & genetic drift would take their toll and the "pure" Nordics would become increasingly homogenous but ALSO increasingly different from anyone outside that population (including fellow "pure" Nordics in other isolated populations). Give them a few thousand years (a few centuries!) and they'd be different from what they were before. The difference would be arbitrary, too, based on allele shuffling and the pressures working on them. That is to say, populations don't move in straight arrows towards ideals or along the trajectories of their heritage. The so-called Nordics of today aren't the Nordics of yesterday nor will they be the Nordics of tomorrow. Since simple isolation cannot maintain the same racial characteristics over any lengthy period of time and since these racial characteristics are clearly mutable, notions of racial purity and racial archetypes are meaningless.

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