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Thread: Ulster Scots History and Culture

  1. #21
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    Read hijacked.

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    Re: History of the Scotch-Irish or Ulster Scot

    Quote Originally Posted by Appalachian
    Cultural affinities between Ulster and the western coasts of Scotland probably extend back to at least 8000BC
    Good to see some fighting blood on here. I agree 8000 BC at least.

    What I've noticed recently from McDonalds Y Chromosone DNA Haplotype studies this year is that the I Haplotype perhaps originated, mutated and became the I Haplotype, right on the Islands, our Islands.

    So multiculturalist Jews who say we all came from the Middle East are probably very wrong indeed.

    Especially when we factor in early Man, what has been called Archaic Homo Sapiens....in the Islands, going back 450,000 years.

    Great to see the Fighting Ulster spirit here. Lets remember the Romans never successfully fought us, so our I Y-Chomosone Haplotype remained intact.
    Last edited by Haplotype I; Wednesday, December 7th, 2005 at 08:23 AM.





  3. #23
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    It is still a symbol of O' Neill, the Catholic O' Neills which did not look kindly upon Cromwell, why would they after they had been displaced and slaughtered by him?
    The Red Hand is a symbol of the region of today's Ulster and not of one clan or family. Its origins are unknown but go back at least 2500 years.
    The Red Hand is found in the arms of the McCartans, O'Donnellys, O'Dunlevys, and McGuinnesses as well as the O'Neills.

    Read hijacked.
    Since the O'neills only adopted the provincial symbol of the Red Hand in the 16th century then if anybodies hijacked the symbol its the O'neills.

    The legend of the Red Hand goes that the leader of a war party to first touch the land with his right hand was promised that land. The winner who was left handed cut off his right hand and threw it on to the land.

    Some people claim that the legend refers to the Milesians however there is absolutely no evidence for this and it is just an assumption.

    Because of its ancient and forgotten origins then it must originate thousands of years in the pagan past.

    To sum up, the Red Hand of Ulster is an ancient pagan symbol whose ownership belongs only to the land of Ulster.
    A! Fredome is a noble thing
    Fredome mays man to haiff liking.
    Fredome all solace to man giffis,
    He levys at es that frely levys.
    A noble hart may haiff nane es
    Na ellys nocht that may him ples
    Gyff fredome failyhe, for fre liking
    Is yharnyt our all other thing.
    Na he that ay has levyt fre
    May nocht knaw weill the propyrte
    The angyr na the wrechyt dome
    That is couplyt to foule thyrldome,
    Bot gyff he had assayit it.
    Than all perquer he suld it wyt,
    And suld think fredome mar to prys
    Than all the gold in warld that is.
    Thus contrar thingis evermar
    Discoveryngis off the tother ar,


    Scots is our mither tung; an gin we dinna hain it,
    thare naebody gaun tae hain it for us.


    Scots is our mother tongue; and if we do not preserve it,
    nobody will preserve it for us.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Vestmannr's Avatar
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    The Milesians landed at Howth, just outside of what is Dublin today - I think there is compelling evidence to consider Dal Riada (Ulster, the Western Isles and Highlands, and the Rhinns of Galloway) on its own terms as 'Conn''s land, vs. Mog (the rest of Ireland to the South) or Eastern 'Pictish' Scotland, or Southern Scotland.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    There is nothing the matter with Americans except their ideals. The real American is all right; it is the ideal American who is all wrong. ~G.K. Chesterton

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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfarer
    The Red Hand is a symbol of the region of today's Ulster and not of one clan or family. Its origins are unknown but go back at least 2500 years.
    The Red Hand is found in the arms of the McCartans, O'Donnellys, O'Dunlevys, and McGuinnesses as well as the O'Neills.


    Since the O'neills only adopted the provincial symbol of the Red Hand in the 16th century then if anybodies hijacked the symbol its the O'neills.

    The legend of the Red Hand goes that the leader of a war party to first touch the land with his right hand was promised that land. The winner who was left handed cut off his right hand and threw it on to the land.

    Some people claim that the legend refers to the Milesians however there is absolutely no evidence for this and it is just an assumption.

    Because of its ancient and forgotten origins then it must originate thousands of years in the pagan past.

    To sum up, the Red Hand of Ulster is an ancient pagan symbol whose ownership belongs only to the land of Ulster.
    Yes the Red Hand. It was two brothers of one Clan who wanted to claim a hereditary piece of territory with a castle on it. They were rowing towards shore, the Clan and beautiful Clan eligible women, with golden hair flowing in the wind and beautiful white skin, where following in row boats as well, watching to see who had the most guts and courage of the rival brothers, the one that was tiring from the rowing, stopped, cut off his hand, and threw it with his remaining hand 200 feet to the shore and claimed the land.

    That -- is the Ulster fighting spirit. We have that blood in us! Even Today!





  6. #26
    Senior Member Imperator X's Avatar
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Fair enough, but it is only a matter of time before the Cathy-licks outbreed the Loyalists and Ireland is unified. Though I fear by that time, Eire shall be overrun by outlanders, multiculturalism, and social decay, resulting from their political apathy and new found wealth from the Euro and technologies sector.
    SVMDEVSSVMCAESARSVMCAELVMETINFERNVM

  7. #27
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    Fair enough, but it is only a matter of time before the Cathy-licks outbreed the Loyalists and Ireland is unified. Though I fear by that time, Eire shall be overrun by outlanders, multiculturalism, and social decay, resulting from their political apathy and new found wealth from the Euro and technologies sector.
    Its not a matter of who is in the majority or minority. So what if Catholics, i assume thats what you mean by cathy-licks, might become a majority?
    Whats important is cultural rights and the freedom for all communities to practise there culture without restriction and prejudice. Northern Ireland has come a long way.
    A catholic majority does not mean a Unified Ireland. Thats a typical misconception among folk who share your ignorant thinking.
    Factors that need to be taken into account is that
    1) Not all catholics support unification with the RoI
    2) Unionist will still be a large minority
    3) Economically the North is too different from the South
    4) The fear from all sections of Northern Irelands communites of hegemony from Dublin
    5) The UK wont just give up the province
    6) The RoI most likely will not want the North
    7) Cultural rights of Gaelic, Ulster Scots, Catholic and Protestants are better garanteed in the North than in the Republic
    8) Ulster is becoming more Atheistic and Agnostic, i cant remember the source from this but is based on censuses in the Province that showed that non religious folk are increasing, in some counties as much as 20%. Includes people from both catholic and protestant backgrounds.
    9)There is also a third option of an Independant Ulster. Quite popular among factions of both the Catholic and Protestant communites.

    Im sure there are other factors too that isnt readily on my mind this moment.

    The situation is obviously far more complex than you think. IMHO i think it is wise to refrain from forming an opinion on a matter you know little or nothing about.
    There seems sometimes like there is this romantic image of Catholic Irish as being brave valiant victims in this. Despite the fact the terrorist murderers cold bloodedly kill innocent civilians including wee bairns, catholic and protestants.
    I have much greater respect of the opinions of the likes of Milesians and other Nationalists/Republicans whose opinions i might not share but at least they know what they are talking about.

    Taking sides is not going to solve the problems, rather a fair platform for Ulster where all communities are free to practise their traditions and where no community has fear of oppression or prejudice regardless if they are in the majority or not.



    Oh a ban on religion should also be a good thing too
    A! Fredome is a noble thing
    Fredome mays man to haiff liking.
    Fredome all solace to man giffis,
    He levys at es that frely levys.
    A noble hart may haiff nane es
    Na ellys nocht that may him ples
    Gyff fredome failyhe, for fre liking
    Is yharnyt our all other thing.
    Na he that ay has levyt fre
    May nocht knaw weill the propyrte
    The angyr na the wrechyt dome
    That is couplyt to foule thyrldome,
    Bot gyff he had assayit it.
    Than all perquer he suld it wyt,
    And suld think fredome mar to prys
    Than all the gold in warld that is.
    Thus contrar thingis evermar
    Discoveryngis off the tother ar,


    Scots is our mither tung; an gin we dinna hain it,
    thare naebody gaun tae hain it for us.


    Scots is our mother tongue; and if we do not preserve it,
    nobody will preserve it for us.

  8. #28
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfarer
    There seems sometimes like there is this romantic image of Catholic Irish as being brave valiant victims in this. Despite the fact the terrorist murderers cold bloodedly kill innocent civilians including wee bairns, catholic and protestants.

    Just as ridiculous is the myth of "English oppression" and accusations of "imperialism" in Northern Ireland. This rhetoric is convenient for propagandists and makes for entertaining Hollywood movies or conversation over drinks at the Sixth International, but it has little historical or truthful basis, in that England has repeatedly been prepared to hand Ulster over to the Irish, but the Ulstermen themselves have resisted this fiercely and insisted on maintaining their status as a nation separate from the Irish.

    We see the pattern repeated again and again, from the days of 'Home Rule,' the Free State, and the Ulster Covenant right down to the modern day's capitulatory power-sharing agreements and subsequent Loyalist backlash.


    Hear the measured beat of Ulstermen marching
    Through the green fields and streets of the towns
    Called up to arms by bold Edward Carson
    To stand for the red hand and crown

    These were the seed of mighty Cuchulain
    These were the sons of Congal Claen
    Determined that Gael and rogue should not rule them
    And England, if need be, withstand

    Those were the days of Ulster's defiance
    Those were the days of passionate strife
    Those were the days when England denied us
    And Ulster stood for her life...
    Last edited by Appalachian; Thursday, December 8th, 2005 at 11:58 PM.

  9. #29
    Account Inactive nurnberg's Avatar
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    Fair enough, but it is only a matter of time before the Cathy-licks outbreed the Loyalists and Ireland is unified. Though I fear by that time, Eire shall be overrun by outlanders, multiculturalism, and social decay, resulting from their political apathy and new found wealth from the Euro and technologies sector.

    Proving once and for all that the premises of said petty nationalism were not authentic.

    What can one say of such character,
    as evidenced when they discovered that the entire cultural expression in the form of cuisine could be based on a single tuber.


  10. #30
    Account Inactive nurnberg's Avatar
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Appalachian
    Just as ridiculous is the myth of "English oppression"...but it has little historical or truthful basis, in that England has repeatedly been prepared to hand Ulster over to the Irish, but the Ulstermen themselves have resisted this fiercely and insisted on maintaining their status as a nation separate from the Irish.
    You have hit the nail on the head there, although it is doubtful any "Irish" would agree with you.

    For a salient example one should look at the photos of 1969 Northern Ireland's Roman Catholics serving tea to the British soldiers who were protecting them.

    The essence of the propaganda is an attempt to shift the conflict from an internal intra-"Irish" one to that of an external inter-national one.

    Such was part of an overall worldwide resurgence of Bolshevism and Internationalism across all European territories. Did the Irish manifestation of such have any true derivation from the alleged thousand year conflict? Little or none at all.

    One need only examine documentation of the negotiations 1922-1923.
    Or examine what the "Saiorse Stat" became post 1923, basically a satellite of Britain, which was all it was equipped to be since the "Flight of the Earls" in the first place.

    The entire 20th century charade has been disgusting.












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