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Thread: Ulster Scots History and Culture

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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture


    “I love Highlanders, and I love Lowlanders, but when I come to that branch of our race that has been grafted on to the Ulster stem I take off my hat in veneration and awe.”
    --Lord Rosebery

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    Senior Member Wayfarer's Avatar
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture



    The writing on the mural says

    "Through Famine and Frost,
    poverty and persecution,
    the Ulster-Scots People
    emigrated to the four corners of the earth.

    Ulster-Scots can be found
    from the Americas
    to Australia – ordinary folk,
    yet extraordinary achievers.

    Our incredible story
    is seldom told.
    Discover it for Yourself"


    Ulster Scots are extraordinary and wonderful folks. Despite what they have to put up with the cry of No Surrender is loudly heard.
    I am proud to call them my kin, my Fowk.
    A! Fredome is a noble thing
    Fredome mays man to haiff liking.
    Fredome all solace to man giffis,
    He levys at es that frely levys.
    A noble hart may haiff nane es
    Na ellys nocht that may him ples
    Gyff fredome failyhe, for fre liking
    Is yharnyt our all other thing.
    Na he that ay has levyt fre
    May nocht knaw weill the propyrte
    The angyr na the wrechyt dome
    That is couplyt to foule thyrldome,
    Bot gyff he had assayit it.
    Than all perquer he suld it wyt,
    And suld think fredome mar to prys
    Than all the gold in warld that is.
    Thus contrar thingis evermar
    Discoveryngis off the tother ar,


    Scots is our mither tung; an gin we dinna hain it,
    thare naebody gaun tae hain it for us.


    Scots is our mother tongue; and if we do not preserve it,
    nobody will preserve it for us.

  3. #13
    Account Inactive nurnberg's Avatar
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Appalachian
    The ‘Flight of the Earls’ in 1607

    and there, effectively, is where Irish history basically ends in the sense of an Irish 'kingdom' with the potential to assert itself as a leading European nation producing European leaders.

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    Account Inactive nurnberg's Avatar
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    Lastly, I would note that it seems to show Irish as not being spoken in Northern Ireland. That would seem strange considering that the Irish language has the highest rates of growth there.


    Well, there are antecedents to that which seem to be overlooked. If such were actually the case then we would not see Douglas Hyde and the Gaelic "resuscitation."

    Did 1923 Irish immerse themselves in the Gaelic language ?
    You must know the answer to that, Milesian.

    Number Native Gaelic Speakers in Ireland: 55,000 (1.4 percent)

    Number of Disabled - "
    Cross disability is a generic term that describes a broad range of disabilities, including those that are physical, emotional, intellectual and mental. It is estimated that there are almost 400,000 people with such disabilities in Ireland, equivalent to almost 10 per cent of the total population."
    (source: PWDI People with Disabilities Ireland)

    what does this all mean in the end?
    That, for whatever reason, the 20th century "Irish" [whatever that is supposed to represent in light of the diverse ancestral components of the island] were not serious about the language from the very beginning and merely employed it as either separatist propaganda or as a communications code for military purposes. The number of authentic native Gaelic speakers seems to be quite low.




    Last edited by nurnberg; Monday, December 5th, 2005 at 08:10 AM.

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    Senior Member Imperator X's Avatar
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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Kind of funny how the Loyal Ulster Scots use the Red Hand as a unifying symbol, when originally the "Red Hand" was a symbol of the native Irish Clan of O' Neal i.e the native Irish clan that was booted off of the land by the English in the first place and then settled by Loyal Scots.
    SVMDEVSSVMCAESARSVMCAELVMETINFERNVM

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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    Kind of funny how the Loyal Ulster Scots use the Red Hand as a unifying symbol, when originally the "Red Hand" was a symbol of the native Irish Clan of O' Neal i.e the native Irish clan that was booted off of the land by the English in the first place and then settled by Loyal Scots.
    False.

    Firstly, there is no such thing as a "native Irish clan," as the Irish themselves were invaders from Iberia who drove the Picts and Brythonnic Celts already inhabiting the island into small corners of it and back across the sea to the British mainland.

    Secondly, there is no irony in the Ulstermen's use of the Red Hand, as it was not only Ulster Scots and other Ulster Britons, but also many of the Gaelic Irish living in Ulster, who chose to resist 'Home Rule' and assert their democratic desire to remain part of the United Kingdom. The overwhelming majority of the people of Ulster still assert that desire, despite decades of brutality and terrorism by those who would discard the democratic will of the majority and force the rule of Dublin upon them.

    The Red Hand has, over the centuries, become much more than a symbol of the O'Neills. It has become a symbol of Ulster, and since the majority of the people of Ulster choose to resist Irish rule and maintain their status as citizens of the UK, it is an apt symbol for Ulster Unionism.

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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Using that logic you could make the assertion that there are no true indigenous populations, after all most Europeans at some point migrated from central Asia.

    It is still a symbol of O' Neill, the Catholic O' Neills which did not look kindly upon Cromwell, why would they after they had been displaced and slaughtered by him?
    SVMDEVSSVMCAESARSVMCAELVMETINFERNVM

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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    Using that logic you could make the assertion that there are no true indigenous populations, after all most Europeans at some point migrated from central Asia.
    The point is that the Gaels drove many of those who inhabited the land before them across the channel to the mainland and absorbed some others. Those who migrated across the channel to Britain returned in successive waves over the centuries beginning long before the plantation of Ireland. For at least 1,500 years, from the return of Congal Claen to the coming of the Gallowglass to the Plantation of the Ulster Scots, Britons have returned to claim their place in Ulster.

    Additionally, the lines have become so blurred that to speak of Gaels vs. 'foreigners' in the current context is meaningless. This is especially evident when one considers that some of the leading figures of the 'Republican' movement, such as Gerry Adams and Bobby Sands, have English and Lowland Scots family names.

    It is still a symbol of O' Neill, the Catholic O' Neills which did not look kindly upon Cromwell, why would they after they had been displaced and slaughtered by him?
    No, it was a symbol of the O'Neills, most likely adopted before they were Christianized by the efforts of the Briton known as Patricius and even before the Normans brought Ireland's traditional Christianity fully under the sway of the Church in Rome. Once more, over the years it has become less a symbol of the O'Neills (who no longer exist as a political entity) and more a symbol of Ulster itself. Since the overwhelming majority of Ulstermen have expressed the desire to remain in Union with Great Britain, that symbol of Ulster is a de facto symbol of Unionism.

    And instead of harkening to Cromwell, himself no friend of the Ulster Scots (having planned to forcibly relocate them from Ulster to the south of Ireland) in this thread about the connections between Ulster and Scotland, you should be harkening to Edward the Bruce, who was invited by the O'Neills themselves to come from Scotland in order to assume the title of King of Ireland in 1315.
    Last edited by Appalachian; Monday, December 5th, 2005 at 10:34 PM.

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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    A Kist O Wurds -- Ulster Scots Radio on BBC Northern Ireland

    Fair faa ye tae a kistfu o yairns, music, wittens an crack, aa gien ower i the Ulster-Scotch leid wi Conal Gillespie.

    Welcome to a chestful of stories, music, news and crack presented in the Ulster Scots tongue by Conal Gillespie.
    Listen here.
    Last edited by Appalachian; Wednesday, December 7th, 2005 at 02:12 AM.

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    Re: Ulster Scots History and Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Appalachian


    Once more, over the years it has become less a symbol of the O'Neills (who no longer exist as a political entity) and more a symbol of Ulster itself.
    Read hijacked.
    SVMDEVSSVMCAESARSVMCAELVMETINFERNVM

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