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Thread: In Defence of a European Christianity

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Post In Defence of a European Christianity

    I'm just defending the other side, as I do occasionally

    Ok, advantages of having a Eurocentric Christianity:

    1) Christianity is one of the few cultural things that underpins the entire occident without regard to nationality. It also serves to exclude Muslims and Jews.

    2) Jews rejected Christ, the first nation that picked up his ideas and embraced them would become the chosen ones. That's the Occident, boys and girls.

    3) We've got the examples in the Old Testament to guide us in defending our Holy Land (that's Europe, people, not Palestine-Israel).

    4) True, Christianity does have semetic origins, but it's been so thoroughly Occidentalised through Christmas, Easter, etc., that it's ours. The fact our ancestors armies raised the Cross as their banner while they drove Muslims and Jews out of Europe is in our favour.

    5) The changes produced through the Second Vatican Council are plain contradiction of the fundamental tenents of the Bible. We can be sickened by Homosexuality and Judeo-Feminism without having the knowledge that our views are little more than arbitrary (hey, if it occurs, it must be genetic, therefore natural - we lose all justification, and if it isn't genetic, we give in when liberals say, well, if it isn't genetic and you still hate it, than the aggressive tendencies of blacks must be cultural, and not genetic - we know this is bullshit but for the simple minded it looks a contradiction).

    6) If we view Judaism as a cultural group, we can cluster Aryak!kes and the Turk-looking Jews in one group. Double bonus.

    7) A revaluation of all values is possible within this framework. Europeans simply turn from being servants of God into the hand of God. Not a difficult thing to do, given what's in the Old Testament.

    8) Only an Aryan can feel the massive atmospheric effect of walking into a Gothic Cathedral :hat

    I only threw 8 in because its definetly true for me. I love it. Anyway, thoughts?
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Okay, now it's my turn:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer
    1) Christianity is one of the few cultural things that underpins the entire occident without regard to nationality. It also serves to exclude Muslims and Jews.
    A positive Occidental fighting and preserving Christianity becomes at least here something more and more rare. Here one can be glad when the Church stays stubborn-Conservative, though even then it's more passive in its attitude for European cultural presservation. Many vicars and Christians here go with the political and socio-cultural zeitgeist (Protestants more than Catholics): left-lib, helping "refugees", "social projects". The left, female, Green-voting vicar who helps "poor" Ausländer is already a caricature figure.
    "Christianity" becomes more and more a simple humanitarian attitude. Nothing helps when the Church itself changes. Everyday one hears of "dialogue" forums between Christians and Muslims, organized by the Church. Of course, only the Christians are so naive and weak to believe in such a "dialogue" and peaceful "coexistence". Compared with the aggressive-preservative Church in former centuries, European Christianity today is nothing but a joke.
    But even parts of the Church, who are first for European cultural preservation against foreign religions, will then, when they have to decide between European racial awakening and "multiculturalism", remember their soft-"humanitarian" feelings. In our real fight we can perhaps pull some single parts of the Church to our side, but most of them and the official Church will stand against the "cruel", "inhuman" and "atheist" "racism".

    2) Jews rejected Christ, the first nation that picked up his ideas and embraced them would become the chosen ones. That's the Occident, boys and girls.
    3 ) We've got the examples in the Old Testament to guide us in defending our Holy Land (that's Europe, people, not Palestine-Israel).
    Tell that all the believers who know every yard of the desert of Palestine and one-donkey town down there, and who get little tears of joy in their eyes when they get the chance in their life to travel down there.
    Christian ideology: Europe as pagan, primitive continent of Barbarians, and "the light" (Christianity), that brought culture, came from the Orient.

    4) True, Christianity does have semetic origins, but it's been so thoroughly Occidentalised through Christmas, Easter, etc., that it's ours. The fact our ancestors armies raised the Cross as their banner while they drove Muslims and Jews out of Europe is in our favour.
    That's true somehow, but as already said, Christianity in Europe is today nothing but a softie, washed religion and a mockery of the former "fighting religion" - no matter if it's still more "Conservative" or more "progressive"-"Humanitarian".
    The Occidentalized elements of Christianity are good European tradition that should be cultivated. But perhaps the original subtance of these European-Occidental elements should be stressed. The connection between many such not original elements where Christianity expressed itself and Christianity itself should be loosened a bit, at least they shouldn't be connected together for good and ill.

    5) The changes produced through the Second Vatican Council are plain contradiction of the fundamental tenents of the Bible. We can be sickened by Homosexuality and Judeo-Feminism without having the knowledge that our views are little more than arbitrary (hey, if it occurs, it must be genetic, therefore natural - we lose all justification, and if it isn't genetic, we give in when liberals say, well, if it isn't genetic and you still hate it, than the aggressive tendencies of blacks must be cultural, and not genetic - we know this is bullshit but for the simple minded it looks a contradiction).
    I don't think, a liberal is more impressed by the argument that a God says, homosexuality is evel.
    My argument - very brief - is that Homosexuality is against the harmonic and good "natural law", so it is perverse and decadent. And it's against all harmonic, good and positive feelings of our racial spirit - and even against the natural and positive feelings of the whole mankind. If it has genetic reasons and can be "healed" is only from secondary meaning in this basic view of how to treat it as such.
    The behaviour of the Negroes is without doubts all in all an expression of their racial spirit (and the racial spirit is again the psychic-mantal result of a certain natural-biological development). Negroes can be bent artificial in a direction that goes against their racial spirit, but there's no chance to change their narural inner life.

    6) If we view Judaism as a cultural group, we can cluster Aryak!kes and the Turk-looking Jews in one group. Double bonus.
    A complicated issue. There is indeed a general I also would view Jews first as a cultural group and in biological respects just as a "race in a second degree". They are not a race in the real sense; there are indeed quite different looking Jews. Even if the Jews are of different racial elements, there is the same phenomen as among some other people who belong to one national-cultural group, even when of different racial elements: the same origin (generally) and the always interbreeding and themselves crossing ancestry lines. So even if there's a heterogenity of the phenotype of the persons, the blood lines of the single persons, if you follow their tracks back in the past, always have crossed, so that the result is a gradual homogenisation among the people as a whole, though the different geographical spreaded branches tend to the predominance fo this or that racial element.
    But as already said: especially among the Jews (2.000 years of spreading in the diaspora, but still mainly secusion) that is a difficult question that one must regard objective and without prejudices. What I only wanted to say: that from a scientific-anthropological viewpoint there is no such thing as a Jewish race, if you take the standards of system-race. Very generally: the two predominating elements among the Jews are the Armenid and the Orientalid (Arabid) race.

    7) A revaluation of all values is possible within this framework. Europeans simply turn from being servants of God into the hand of God. Not a difficult thing to do, given what's in the Old Testament.
    Again: Christiany today is something different from what it was when the Turks were at the gates of Vienna. Christians today want to have a good, cosy sleep in the arms of God like babies.

    8) Only an Aryan can feel the massive atmospheric effect of walking into a Gothic Cathedral :hat
    That's true. But even if the special form and possibility of artistic creation and expression was Christianity, the spirit that is the real origin of this creation, is racial.
    Negro Christians have quite an other way of expression.

    But tell me - how many Gothic Cathedrals have you got in Australia?
    Last edited by Nordgau; Saturday, August 16th, 2003 at 11:15 AM.
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    Post The Warrior spirit of the European Church

    I must say that these are excellent posts, I think you brought up some good points there Anarch.
    I'm glad to see the difference being discerned between modern day "Pseudo-Christianity" and true Christianity.

    When we have openly proud homosexual clergy (Which is expressely condemned by the Bible, ie Sodom and Gomorrah) and Popes declaring their undying love for the Jews (when traditionally they have been viewed as Christ-Killers who should be held in perpetual servitude), you know there is something very wrong.
    As Jesus said would happen, there is a mass apostacy today.

    It seems that Christianity has forgotten the offical name of the Church here on earth. The Church Militant . That is because we are here as warriors, soldiers of Christ, and we must not shirk from that battle.
    We are not here to make friends.
    Soldiers are tested, not in repose, but in battle.
    The Church Militant drove the invading Turks out of Europe with a vastly outnumbered fleet, yet still victory was ours.
    Not to mention the Crusades.
    God is not the fluffy, all-caring God portrayed today who is so lenient that he doesn't really mind people breaking all his commandments and defying him.
    God is forgiving to those who in weakness fall in their spiritual battle, but ask to be healed so they may take up the fight anew.
    But make no mistake that he intends to crush His enemies completely.
    We are called to "fight the good fight"

    In Hoc Signes Vinces - By this sign you will conquer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryggviulf
    A positive Occidental fighting and preserving Christianity becomes at least here something more and more rare. Here one can be glad when the Church stays stubborn-Conservative, though even then it's more passive in its attitude for European cultural presservation. Many vicars and Christians here go with the political and socio-cultural zeitgeist (Protestants more than Catholics): left-lib, helping "refugees", "social projects". The left, female, Green-voting vicar who helps "poor" Ausländer is already a caricature figure.
    "Christianity" becomes more and more a simple humanitarian attitude. Nothing helps when the Church itself changes. Everyday one hears of "dialogue" forums between Christians and Muslims, organized by the Church. Of course, only the Christians are so naive and weak to believe in such a "dialogue" and peaceful "coexistence". Compared with the aggressive-preservative Church in former centuries, European Christianity today is nothing but a joke.
    But even parts of the Church, who are first for European cultural preservation against foreign religions, will then, when they have to decide between European racial awakening and "multiculturalism", remember their soft-"humanitarian" feelings. In our real fight we can perhaps pull some single parts of the Church to our side, but most of them and the official Church will stand against the "cruel", "inhuman" and "atheist" "racism".
    Entirely true. As per usual, I advocate cultural revolution. Most of these problems I think came from the second vatican council, when the shit hits the fan I don't think the Pope would find it a great deal difficult to undo it - if he doesn't, there's going to be a lot of pissed off white Catholics... I think if the Catholic Church came around, the effects of that in European Christendom (UGH GODDAMNIT I can't think of a better word) would rebound everywhere, regardless of denomination.

    Tell that all the believers who know every yard of the desert of Palestine and one-donkey town down there, and who get little tears of joy in their eyes when they get the chance in their life to travel down there.
    Christian ideology: Europe as pagan, primitive continent of Barbarians, and "the light" (Christianity), that brought culture, came from the Orient.
    Felaheen These people are mindless fools, not men of race. But your point is taken.

    That's true somehow, but as already said, Christianity in Europe is today nothing but a softie, washed religion and a mockery of the former "fighting religion" - no matter if it's still more "Conservative" or more "progressive"-"Humanitarian".
    The Occidentalized elements of Christianity are good European tradition that should be cultivated. But perhaps the original subtance of these European-Occidental elements should be stressed. The connection between many such not original elements where Christianity expressed itself and Christianity itself should be loosened a bit, at least they shouldn't be connected together for good and ill.
    That, I believe, would be the ultimate solution in Occidentalising Christianity. It's going to have to be done, I don't think we could abolish Christianity altogther across the entire Occident, and there would need to be something to replace it.

    I don't think, a liberal is more impressed by the argument that a God says, homosexuality is evel.
    My argument - very brief - is that Homosexuality is against the harmonic and good "natural law", so it is perverse and decadent. And it's against all harmonic, good and positive feelings of our racial spirit - and even against the natural and positive feelings of the whole mankind. If it has genetic reasons and can be "healed" is only from secondary meaning in this basic view of how to treat it as such.
    The behaviour of the Negroes is without doubts all in all an expression of their racial spirit (and the racial spirit is again the psychic-mantal result of a certain natural-biological development). Negroes can be bent artificial in a direction that goes against their racial spirit, but there's no chance to change their narural inner life.
    I know, it's just the fear of God can be useful for the religious ones. And if a European Christianity like what I'm advocating could be developed, having fanatics who follow it would be... useful.

    A complicated issue. There is indeed a general I also would view Jews first as a cultural group and in biological respects just as a "race in a second degree". They are not a race in the real sense; there are indeed quite different looking Jews. Even if the Jews are of different racial elements, there is the same phenomen as among some other people who belong to one national-cultural group, even when of different racial elements: the same origin (generally) and the always interbreeding and themselves crossing ancestry lines. So even if there's a heterogenity of the phenotype of the persons, the blood lines of the single persons, if you follow their tracks back in the past, always have crossed, so that the result is a gradual homogenisation among the people as a whole, though the different geographical spreaded branches tend to the predominance fo this or that racial element.
    But as already said: especially among the Jews (2.000 years of spreading in the diaspora, but still mainly secusion) that is a difficult question that one must regard objective and without prejudices. What I only wanted to say: that from a scientific-anthropological viewpoint there is no such thing as a Jewish race, if you take the standards of system-race. Very generally: the two predominaring elements among the Jews are the Armenid and the Orientalid (Arabid) race.
    Ok, my ignorance of racial classification becomes apparent - are the Armenid Jews the ones I refer to as Aryak!kes, i.e. white looking Jews? I know three of them who could be mistaken for whites if you didn't know what you were looking for. Obviously I do and that's why they seem to stand out so much.

    Again: Christiany today is something different from what it was when the Turks were at the gates of Vienna. Christians today want to have a good, cosy sleep in the arms of God like babies.
    THAT type of Christianity is what I'd prefer to have ressurected. Europe might not have been written down on paper as the Holy Land but after the Crusades it might as well have been. The Christianity of the Spanish Inquisition, the wars against the Turks, and our imperialism against the rest of the world.

    That's true. But even if the special form and possibility of artistic creation and expression was Christianity, the spirit that is the real origin of this creation, is racial.
    Negro Christians have quite an other way of expression.

    But tell me - how many Gothic Cathedrals have you got in Australia?
    I saw half a dozen Gothic style Churches today, including one big Cathedral Obviously the spirit that created Gothic architecture is Occidental, but it's linked with Christianity. My general point of this post is that Christianity is/was a core part of Occidental Culture and
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    I must say that these are excellent posts, I think you brought up some good points there Anarch.
    I'm glad to see the difference being discerned between modern day "Pseudo-Christianity" and true Christianity.

    When we have openly proud homosexual clergy (Which is expressely condemned by the Bible, ie Sodom and Gomorrah) and Popes declaring their undying love for the Jews (when traditionally they have been viewed as Christ-Killers who should be held in perpetual servitude), you know there is something very wrong.
    As Jesus said would happen, there is a mass apostacy today.

    It seems that Christianity has forgotten the offical name of the Church here on earth. The Church Militant . That is because we are here as warriors, soldiers of Christ, and we must not shirk from that battle.
    We are not here to make friends.
    Soldiers are tested, not in repose, but in battle.
    The Church Militant drove the invading Turks out of Europe with a vastly outnumbered fleet, yet still victory was ours.
    Not to mention the Crusades.
    God is not the fluffy, all-caring God portrayed today who is so lenient that he doesn't really mind people breaking all his commandments and defying him.
    God is forgiving to those who in weakness fall in their spiritual battle, but ask to be healed so they may take up the fight anew.
    But make no mistake that he intends to crush His enemies completely.
    We are called to "fight the good fight"

    In Hoc Signes Vinces - By this sign you will conquer
    That's my point (goddamnit where did the grin smily go?)

    Even when I was a solid Nietzschean atheist, I'd tell my friends that if the Church was what it was a hundred years ago I would've been baptised as soon as I could, and go to Church every sunday. The way things are, whenever I'm in Melbourne (state capital) I go to St Paul's Cathedral (it's awesome) and pray. I went into Melbourne today and prayed twice there. It's run by Anglicans (that's the English branch of Protestantism), who accept homosexual priests *shudders*, but I go there for the Church itself, not for the people who run it.

    If I'm still feeling like this in a week, I'll find some more out, read the Bible and perhaps go get baptised at a Greek Orthodox Church. At least they've got things in order where the current Catholic Church doesn't...
    Last edited by Jack; Saturday, August 16th, 2003 at 10:48 AM.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer
    Ok, my ignorance of racial classification becomes apparent - are the Armenid Jews the ones I refer to as Aryak!kes, i.e. white looking Jews? I know three of them who could be mistaken for whites if you didn't know what you were looking for. Obviously I do and that's why they seem to stand out so much.
    Not really. "White" is of course a bit an arbitrary term, but pure Armenids don't really look European-"White". I would only take the directly European subraces of the Europid (Caucasian) greater race, these are: Nordic, Falish, Dinaric, Alpine, Mediterranean, East-Baltic, together as "the white race" (also, because they are historical, cultural and biological connected and relatively mixed-together on European soil). In Germany Ausländer with Armenid features (many Turks or Arabs,...) can be clearly seen as non-Germans, as non-Whites.
    If you have a very "White" looking Jew, then you must think of one where European racial elements are quite predominating against non-European, such as Armenid or Orientalid. The Jews who lived for the last 2000 years among European people have of course received elements of directly European sub-races.

    A personal observation I've made is that Jews sometimes are "Whitened" in hair- and also skin-colour, but still have got undoubtable Armenid Ashkenazim more) or Orientalid (Sephardim more) facial features (perhaps not even totally, but as a visibly predominating element). This also seems to be what people have more out of a feeling than out of real anthropological knowledge, when they say that somebody looks "somehow" or "a bit" "Jewish" - even when some of his features seem European. But what they feel as "Jewish look" among such blends, is an among pure Europeans not common Armenid or Orientalid element.
    Look at Wolfowitz: he isn't a classic example for a person of Armenid race, he's a racial blend. But Armenid features are - even quite - visible in his face, and that is what makes his - popular spoken - "Jewish look". Just one example, you could take other persons also.

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    Post Why Not European Paganism?

    Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic religions - they are all Semitic brothers!

    Christ's ideas are a mish-mash of pseudo-Buddhism and Judaism - Europeans don't really need them.

    We also do not need the Jealous tribal God of the Old Testament [OT].

    We have our OWN gods and goddesses who are far more attuned to our own Aryan mentality and heritage.

    By adopting the OT we have distorted our Aryan culture.

    Let's keep Yule [Christmas] and Ostara [Easter], sure, and adopt the Nordic Paganism from which they are derived!

    That way we reject ALL the Semitic aspects of Judaeo-Christianity.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Why Not European Paganism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic religions - they are all Semitic brothers!
    Nevermind that most Christians are not semitic, and only half of Islam's following is semitic as well. And many Jews today are not even semitic either, but more Turkish and Armenian.

    Christ's ideas are a mish-mash of pseudo-Buddhism and Judaism - Europeans don't really need them.
    *sigh* how many times must I repeat myself? The most historians and theologians have ever been able to prove is that Christianity grew out of Hellenic Judaism; ie a form of a Judaism that was far more Greek in nature than Talmudic. So Christianity has roots in European thinking from its very beginning. Even the Jews themselves looked upon the Galileens with mistrust because of their Greek ways and also because they were Gentiles.

    By adopting the OT we have distorted our Aryan culture.
    Nevermind Europe reached its height under Christianity.

    That way we reject ALL the Semitic aspects of Judaeo-Christianity.
    *sigh* how many times do I have refute this as well? There is no Judeo-Christianity, not even the Jews admit this.

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    Post Re: In Defence of a European Christianity

    It's enough for me that German planes and tanks have crosses on them.

    European Christianity is due for a revival. Christianity has always grown the most when oppressed and suppressed. The new EU constitution is certainly oppressive as regards religion.
    "The German is like a willow.
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    Post Re: Why Not European Paganism?

    Pushkin; "Nevermind that most Christians are not semitic, and only half of Islam's following is semitic as well. And many Jews today are not even semitic either, but more Turkish and Armenian".

    Moody; 'Semitic' here also pertains to Semitic culture and ideas as seen in the Old Testament which Jews, Christians and Muslims have in common.

    Pushkin; "Christianity grew out of Hellenic Judaism; ie a form of a Judaism that was far more Greek in nature than Talmudic. So Christianity has roots in European thinking from its very beginning. Even the Jews themselves looked upon the Galileens with mistrust because of their Greek ways and also because they were Gentiles".

    Moody; That may be so, but it doesn't change the far more IMPORTANT fact that the first Christians were Jews; the main figures in Christianity were Jews, i.e., Jesus and Paul [real name Saul].
    Christians claim that Jesus fulfills the prophecies of the Hebrew Old Testament, that's why the Hebrew book makes up the MOST of the Christian Bible!

    Pushkin; "Nevermind Europe reached its height under Christianity".

    Moody; That's a matter of opinion; many would argue that ancient Greece, and Republican/Imperial Rome were the cultural/political heights, and the pagan tendencies of the Renaissance certainly surpass the more Christian Medieval period.

    Pushkin; "There is no Judeo-Christianity, not even the Jews admit this".

    Moody; Of course Jews and Christians would reject the linking of the two religions, simply because the Jews deny that the Jew Jesus was the Messiah, and Christians reject the Jews for not believing that the Jew Jesus WAS the Messiah.
    However, taking an objective and non-partisan view, we can see that Judaism and Christianity are totally linked - take the aforementioned Old Testament for starters.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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