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Thread: Tough Talk on the Free Love Movement

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    Senior Member Gladstone's Avatar
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    Exclamation Tough Talk on Free Love

    A link to an American magazine article with tough talk on the free love movement and the Communists/Socialists promoting it

    http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-b...IF&pagenum=815

    A 1960's piece from Time or Newsweek? Think again! The article is from the September 29, 1855 issue of "The Living Age" magazine.

    The write up is from pages 815 to 821. To turn the pages simply click on "next page" at the upper right corner of the screen.

    This stuff goes back quite aways. :-)

    Gladstone
    Last edited by Gladstone; Friday, August 15th, 2003 at 06:41 PM.
    Turman found a copy of The Graduate, and thought highly enough of the story that he made a movie he considered to be 90-percent faithful to the book.

    But Turman and director Mike Nichols made one key adaptation, changing the Braddocks from WASP-y blonde characters into a dark-haired, more ethnic-looking family.

    From NPR's Present at the Creation

    http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/patc/graduate/

    http://www.norcalmovies.com/TheGraduate/tg11.jpg

  2. #2
    Sideways to the Sun
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    Milesian's Avatar
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    "...the ultimate aim is to subvert the present organisation of society, destroy the insitution of marriage as recognised by the religion and laws of Christendom"

    "The Championship of Socialism, or of Universal Libertinism and Adultery, which as but another name for the same thing is carried forward under various guises and different agencies; but they all aim at the same thing, the destruction of the marriage relation as it is created and recognised by Christianity.."


    Not only the sentiments but even the wording is the same as that of many Masonic documents I have seen in relation to their aims at "overthrowing Christian society".
    It seems the Church was right to lump Communism, Socialsm and Freemasonry together. Ultimately they are all "various guises and different agencies" (as the text above declares) of the same thing, as is Liberalism.

    Excellent piece, Gladstone.

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    Senior Member Gladstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    "...the ultimate aim is to subvert the present organisation of society, destroy the insitution of marriage as recognised by the religion and laws of Christendom"
    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    It seems the Church was right to lump Communism, Socialsm and Freemasonry together. Ultimately they are all "various guises and different agencies" (as the text above declares) of the same thing, as is Liberalism.
    There's been it appears a titanic struggle taking place within the West that has lasted centuries....possibly longer...between primarily "the Church" and for brevitys sake "the progressives" (ie Reds..Socialist..Communists..rad-libs..etc).

    It's almost as though the Roman emperor Constantine's enmasse conversion of Rome to Christianity as well as the later forced conversions of Europe, certainly extremes, brought about a centuries in coming reaction. The reaction itself morphing into an extreme.

    The part of "free love" described in the article as simply the right to determine who one would marry, and, whether one stayed married or not, I do not have a problem with. There did need to be change and there has been thankfully.....but....true to form, the Reds have this way of pointing out very real problems but providing a false answer.

    Orwell's "2+2=5" describes the phenomena quite well. The "2+2" portion of the equation is entirely legitimate...its the answer thats the problem.

    What the Reds have given birth to in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, China, Cambodia, etc. and their dead, static societies, is hardly the answer to anything, nor is it 'progressive'. The Reds need to be taken to tasks for their hundred million murders. Their own "Moscow Trials" would do them good.

    Then perhaps they will not be so arrogant.

    Gladstone
    Last edited by Gladstone; Saturday, August 16th, 2003 at 09:00 PM.
    Turman found a copy of The Graduate, and thought highly enough of the story that he made a movie he considered to be 90-percent faithful to the book.

    But Turman and director Mike Nichols made one key adaptation, changing the Braddocks from WASP-y blonde characters into a dark-haired, more ethnic-looking family.

    From NPR's Present at the Creation

    http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/patc/graduate/

    http://www.norcalmovies.com/TheGraduate/tg11.jpg

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    Isn't "marriage" just something invented by humans to make ourselves feel more moral and civilized and deny our animal nature?

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    Senior Member Phlegethon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladygoeth33
    Isn't "marriage" just something invented by humans to make ourselves feel more moral and civilized and deny our animal nature?

    I hold this to be the highest task of a bond between two people: that each
    should stand guard over the solitude of the other. For if it lies in the
    nature of indifference and of the crowd to recognize no solitude, then
    love and friendship are there for the purpose of continually providing the
    opportunity for solitude. And only those are the true sharings which
    rhythmically interrupt periods of deep isolation....

    I am of the opinion that "marriage" as such does not deserve as much
    emphasis as it has acquired through the conventional development of its
    nature. It does not occur to anyone to expect a single person to be
    "happy" - but if he marries, people are much surprised if he isn't! (And,
    for that matter, it really isn't at all important to be happy, whether
    single or married.)

    Marriage is, in many respects, a simplification of one's way of life, and
    the union naturally combines the forces and wills of two young people so
    that, together, they seem to reach farther into the future than before. -
    Only, those are sensations by which one CANNOT live. Above all, marriage
    is a new task and a new seriousnes, - a new challenge to the questioning
    of the strength and generosity of each partner and a great new danger for
    both.

    It is a question in marriage, to my feeling, not of creating a quick
    community of spirit by tearing down and destroying all boundaries, but
    rather a good marriage is that in which each appoints the other guardian
    of his solitude, and shows him this confidence, the greatest in his power
    to bestow. A "togetherness" between two people is an impossibility, and
    where it seems, nevertheless, to exist, it is a narrowing, a reciprocal
    agreement which robs either one party or both of his fullest freedom and
    development. But, once the realization is accepted that even between the
    closest human beings infinite distances continue to exist, a wonderful
    living side by side can grow up, if they succeed in loving the distance
    between them which makes it possible for each to see the other whole and
    against a wide sky!

    Therefore this too must be the standard for rejection or choice: whether
    one is willing to stand guard over the solitude of a person and whether
    one is inclined to set this same person at the gate of one's own solitude,
    of which he learns only through that which steps, festively clothed, out
    of the great darkness.

    At bottom no one in life can help anyone else in life; this one
    experiences over and over in every conflict and every perplexity: that one
    is alone.

    All companionship can consist only in the strengthening of two neighboring
    solitudes, whereas everything that one is wont to call "giving oneself" is
    by nature harmful to companionship: for when a person abandons himself, he
    is no longer anything, and when two people both give themselves up in
    order to come close to each other, there is no longer any ground beneath
    them and their being together is a continual falling.

    There is scarcely anything more difficult than to love one another. That
    it is work, day labor, day labor, God knows there is no other word for.
    And look, added to this is the fact that young people are not prepared for
    such difficult loving; for convention has tried to make this most
    complicated and ultimate relationship into something easy and frivolous,
    has given it the appearance of everyone's being able to do it.

    It is not so. Love is something difficult and it is more difficult than
    other things because in other conflicts, nature herself enjoins men to
    collect themselves, to take themselves firmly in hand with all their
    strength, while in the heightening of love the impulse is to give oneself
    wholly away.

    But just think, can that be anything beautiful to give oneself away not as
    something whole and ordered, but haphazard rather, bit by bit, as it comes?
    Can such giving away, that looks so like a throwing away and
    dismemberment, be anything good, can it be happiness, joy, progress? No,
    it cannot...

    When you give someone flowers, you arrange them beforehand, don't you?
    But young people who love each other fling themselves to each other in the
    impatience and haste of their passion, and they don't notice at all what a
    lack of mutual esteem lies in this disordered giving of themselves; they
    notice it with astonishment and indignation only from the dissension that
    arises between them out of all this disorder. And once there is disunity
    between them, the confusion grows with every day; neither of the two has
    anything unbroken, pure, and unspoiled about him any longer, and amid the
    disconsolateness of a break they try to hold fast to the semblance of
    their happiness (for all that was really supposed to be for the sake of
    happiness).

    Alas, they are scarcely able to recall any more what they meant by
    happiness. In this uncertainty each becomes more and more unjust toward
    the other; they who wanted to do each other good are now handling one
    another in an imperious and intolerant manner, and in the struggle somehow
    to get out of their untenable and unbearable state of confusion, they
    commit the greatest fault that can happen to human relationships: they
    become impatient. They hurry to a conclusion; to come, as they believe,
    to a final decision, they try once and for all to establish their
    relationship, whose surprising changes have frightened them, in order to
    remain the same now and FOREVER (as they say).

    That is only the last error in this long chain of errings linked fast to
    one another. What is dead cannot even be clung to (for it crumbles and
    changes its character); how much less can what is living and live be
    treated definitely, once and for all.

    Self-transformation is precisely what life is, and human relationships,
    which are an extract of life, are the most changeable of all, rising and
    falling from minute to minute, and lovers are those in whose relationship
    and contact no one moment resembles another. People between whom nothing
    accustomed, nothing that has already been present before ever takes place,
    but many new, unexpected unprecedented things. There are such
    relationships which must be a very great, almost unbearable happiness, but
    they can occur ONLY between very rich natures and between those who, each
    for himself, are richly ordered and composed; they can unite only two
    wide, deep individual worlds.

    Young people - it is obvious - cannot achieve such a relationship, but
    they can, if they understand their life properly, grow up slowly to such
    happiness and prepare themselves for it. They must not forget, when they
    love, that they are beginners, bunglers of life, apprentices in love -
    they must LEARN love, and that (like ALL learning) wants peace, patience
    and composure!

    To take love seriously and to bear and to learn it like a task, this it is
    that young people need. - Like so much else, people have also
    misunderstood the place of love in life, they have made it into play and
    pleasure because they thought play and pleasure were more blissful than
    work; but there is NOTHING happier than work, and love, just because it is
    the extreme happiness, can be nothing else but work.


    So, whoever loves must try to act as if he had a great work: he must be
    much alone and go into himself and collect himself and hold fast to
    himself; he must work; he must become SOMETHING!

    For believe me, the more one is, the richer is all that one experiences.
    And whoever wants to have a deep love in his life, must collect and save
    for it and gather honey.

    To love is good, too: love being difficult. For one human being
    to love another: that is perhaps the most difficult of all our tasks, the
    ultimate, the last test and proof, the work for which all other work is
    but preparation. For this reason young people, who are beginners in
    everything, cannot yet know love: they have to learn it. With their whole
    being, with all their forces, gathered close about their lonely, timid,
    upward-beating heart, they must learn to love. But learning-time is
    always a long, secluded time, and so loving, for a long while ahead and
    far on into life, is - solitude, intensified and deepened loneness for him
    who loves.

    Love is at first not anything that means merging, giving over, and uniting
    with another (for what would a union be of something unclarified and
    unfinished, still subordinate - ?); it is a high inducement to the
    individual to ripen, to become something in himself, to become world, to
    become world for himself for another's sake; it is a great exacting claim
    upon him, something that chooses him out and calls him to vast things.
    Only in this sense, as the task of the working at themselves ("to hearken
    and to hammer day and night"), might young people who use the love that is
    given them. Merging and surrendering and every kind of communion is not
    for them (who must save and gather for a long, long time still), is the
    ultimate, is perhaps that for which humans lives as yet scarcely suffice.

    But young people err so often and so grievously in this: that they (in
    whose nature it lies to have no patience) fling themselves at each other,
    when love takes possession of them, scatter themselves, just as they are,
    in all their untidiness, disorder, confusion...And then what? What is
    life to do to this heap of half-battered existence which they call their
    communion and which they would gladly call their happiness, if it were
    possible, and their future?

    Thus each loses himself for the sake of the other and loses the other and
    many others that wanted still to come. And loses the expanses and the
    possibilities, exchanges the approach and flight of gentle, divining things
    for an unfruitful perplexity out of which nothing can come any more,
    nothing save a little disgust, disillusionment and poverty, and rescue in
    one of the many conventions that have been put up in great number like
    public refuges along this most dangerous road. No realm of human
    experience is so well provided with conventions as this: life-preservers
    of most varied invention, boats and swimming-bladders are here; the social
    conception has managed to supply shelters of every sort, for, as it was
    disposed to take love-life as a pleasure, it had also to give it an easy
    form, cheap, safe and sure, as public pleasures are.

    It is true that many young people who wrongly, that is, simply with
    abandon, and solitarily (the average will of course always go on doing
    so), feel the oppressiveness of a failure and want to make the situation
    in which they have landed viable and fruitful in their own personal way -;
    for their nature tells them that, less even than all else that is
    important, can questions of love be solved publicly and according to this
    or that agreement; that they are questions, intimate question from one
    human being to another, which in any case demand a new, special and ONLY
    personal answer - : but how should they, who have already flung themselves
    together and no longer mark off and distinguish themselves from each
    other, who therefore no longer possess anything of their own selves, be
    able to find a way out of themselves, out of the depth of their already
    shattered solitude?

    They act out of common helplessness, and then, if, with the best
    intentions, they try to avoid the convention that occurs to them (say,
    marriage), they land in the tentacles of some less loud, but equally
    deadly conventional solution; for then everything far around them is -
    convention; where people act out of a prematurely fused, turbid communion,
    EVERY move is convention: every relation to which such disentanglement
    leads has its convention, be it ever so unusual (that is, in the ordinary
    sense immoral); why, even separation would here be a conventional step, an
    impersonal chance decision without strength and without fault.

    Whoever looks seriously at it finds that neither for death, which is
    difficult, nor for difficult love has any explanation, any solution, any
    hint or way yet been discerned; and for these two problems that we carry
    wrapped up and hand on without opening, it will not be possible to
    discover any general rule resting in agreement. But in the same measure
    in which we begin as individuals to put life to the test, we shall, being
    individuals, meet these great things at closer range. The demands which
    the difficult work of love makes upon our development are more than
    life-size, and as beginners we are not up to them. But if we nevertheless
    hold out and take this love upon us as burden and apprenticeship, instead
    of losing ourselves in all the light and frivolous play, behind which
    people have hidden from the most earnest earnestness of their existence -
    then a little progress and an alleviation will perhaps be perceptible to
    those who come long after us; that would be much.

    - Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters on Love
    And all my youth passed by sad-hearted,
    the joy of Spring was never mine;
    Autumn blows through me dread of parting,
    and my heart dreams and longs to die.

    - Nikolaus Lenau (1802-1850)

    Real misanthropes are not found in solitude, but in the world; since it is experience of life, and not philosophy, which produces real hatred of mankind.

    - Giacomo Leopardi (1798-1837)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Gladstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladygoeth33
    Isn't "marriage" just something invented by humans to make ourselves feel more moral and civilized and deny our animal nature?
    Hmmmm. That sounds like radical free love type talk!

    An agent provacateur is attempting to subvert us. Even more dangerous still; a Mata Hari is within our midst wanting to seduce us with the siren song of the well spoken word.

    It will never, ever work, don't ya know!

    But don't give up trying.

    Gladstone
    Turman found a copy of The Graduate, and thought highly enough of the story that he made a movie he considered to be 90-percent faithful to the book.

    But Turman and director Mike Nichols made one key adaptation, changing the Braddocks from WASP-y blonde characters into a dark-haired, more ethnic-looking family.

    From NPR's Present at the Creation

    http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/patc/graduate/

    http://www.norcalmovies.com/TheGraduate/tg11.jpg

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