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Thread: A Forgotten Germanic People: the Scanians

  1. #21
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    In what way are Scanians "forgotten"? We are very aware of their existance here in Sweden, and they are one of the most well-known regional groups in Scandinavia. And Scanians are not a "special" or distinct group of people, they are rather heavily "Swedizfied" Danes. Their Scanian dialect is also a Danish dialect, but has been so Swedish-influenced that it is more similar to Swedish than Danish nowadays. Also it is more correct to talk of "Skåneland" if we want to see it from a ethnolinguistic perspective, since this includes the Scanians close relatives in the neighbouring Blekinge and Halland.

    If there is a people that is forgotten, that is the Geats!

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    I really like Scania, beautiful countryside and the people there are very nice..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir View Post
    And Scanians are not a "special" or distinct group of people, they are rather heavily "Swedizfied" Danes. Their Scanian dialect is also a Danish dialect, but has been so Swedish-influenced that it is more similar to Swedish than Danish nowadays.
    Scanian is not a Danish dialect! The differences between Scanian and Danish are so many that a lot of the Danish people asked about it say that they have an easier time understanding Swedish than understanding Scanian. Sure, Scanian was influenced by Danish at one time (and is now in a similar way being influenced by Swedish), since it was regarded as Danish soil, but the Scanian dialects have always had a lot of distinct features unique to them, and not shared by Danish or Swedish. Old Norse developed into Danish, Swedish and Scanian (among others). So there.

    And, yeah, it's sad that the Geats are being more and more forgotten. But it's not only sad for the Geats, the Sweons suffer from it too. Geats and Sweons are two different tribes with different features, and it's sad that this is being forgotten. The Scanians, Gotlanders and Jamts have it easy. People still remember their tribes, without lumping them all together in the umbrella term "Swedish" (well, some do lump them together, but it hardly occurs as often as with Sweons and Geats).

  4. #24
    Aka kentynet Northumbria's Avatar
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    Scanians are just Danes who ended up in Sweden when it nicked their land from Denmark.

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    Senior Member Liemannen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbria View Post
    Scanians are just Danes who ended up in Sweden when it nicked their land from Denmark.
    Nonsense!


    Harald Blåtand conquered Skåne in the 970s and incorporated it into his kingdom. Before that we do not know much about who ruled Skåne.

    In 1332 the Swedish king Magnus Eriksson bought Skåne from the Danes.

    In 1360 the Danish king Valdemar Atterdag conquered Skåne.

    Between 1397 and 1523 Denmark and Sweden was, at least formally, joined in the Kalmar Union.

    In 1644 Sweden conquered most parts of Skåne but was unable to hold it.

    In 1658 Denmark ceded Skåne to Sweden.

    In 1676 Denmark tried to reconquer Skåne but failed.

    A last attempt to reconquer Skåne was made in 1710.

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    Aka kentynet Northumbria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liemannen View Post
    Nonsense!
    I'd expect a Swede to say that.

    Control over a territory doesn't mean much alone, Hungary used to control much of Central Europe for centuries and yet the people there aren't all Hungarians by default.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liemannen View Post
    Harald Blåtand conquered Skåne in the 970s and incorporated it into his kingdom. Before that we do not know much about who ruled Skåne.
    Not entirely true. Harald Blåtand incorporated many smaller entities into his kingdom that would become Denmark (also enforcing Christianity). Saying that Scanians (in a broader term) were not Danes because they were not part of a Danish kingdom is rubbish. Most scholars agree that the Danes conquered what was to become the Danish isles and the rest of Denmark from the east and thus from Scania. Scanians were very much Danes, as well as probably containing many other old(er) tribal entities in the term. It is true, however, that the Scanian dialect (of Danish) differed from what was the official Danish language much as the different Jutish and other dialects did. (I remember an anecdote about a cleric advising the king not to hire Scanian scribes because they didn't write 'proper' Danish). This said, the Scandinavian languages were closer at that time (13th century) and when the Swedes conquered Scania in the 17th century, the Scanians did indeed speak Danish and were by any standards Danes as well as Scanians. The dialect however had (and have) many peculiar words not found in either Swedish or Danish regular, but then again found in neighbouring dialects (in Småland). In the years following their conquest, the Swedes forced Scanians to learn Swedish (which would not be too big a shift) outlawed Danish literature and broke all bonds across the Sound. Mainly, the institution through which the Swedification was achieved was the church. Despite this, Scanians continued to preserve a distinct language (if you like) between themselves, which in turn was very much like Danish (in vocabulary more than pronunciation) but also had a touch of its own. It must be stressed here also, that "Scanian" is a wide term and the dialect-words still in use today differ a lot depending on where you are in Skåneland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liemannen View Post
    In 1332 the Swedish king Magnus Eriksson bought Skåne from the Danes.
    He actually became King of Sweden, Norway AND Scania; buying Scania on agreement with the Scanian ruling classes to get rid of the German dukes (such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_III_of_Holstein), who had acquired almost all of Denmark because of the inept Kings of Denmark at the time. After only 28 years the Danish king Valdemar Atterdag (Valdemar 'Day again') "reacquired" the Scanian lands during inner struggles in Sweden.

    Nu tyar jag inte skriva mer' !

    Here's an interesting law-text written in the 13th century:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanian_Law

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