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Thread: Classify Very Nordid Northern Irishman Patrick Kielty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    Actually, I do have a sloping forehead. It's almost in line with my convex nose.

    Keep in mind that this pic has some distortion in it. It was taken from close up, and so the head is blown out of proportion.

    But my forehead is not the reason why I'm not an extreme Nord. My face is basically a bit too big, and lacks those sharp features of extreme Halstatts and Cords.
    Doesn't sound like you have Danubian traits if you consider your face to be big.You might have UP or Carpathid traits then along with Corded IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by providenje
    Doesn't sound like you have Danubian traits if you consider your face to be big.You might have UP or Carpathid traits then along with Corded IMO.

    Yeah, you may be right. There's probably a cocktail of genetic material inside me, from all over the place.

    But I tell you what, I'm not losing any sleep over it.

    I'm over 1.90m, built like an athlete, with really blond hair. Believe it or not, people notice me, and I love it. Sure, maybe it's a bit shallow, but so what? I'm certainly no bimbo - I can match it with most when it comes to flexing the old noodle. He, he...

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    The Races of Europe (1939) by Carleton Coon

    (Chapter IX, section 4)
    Scandinavia; Norway

    "The forehead of this type is for the most part sloping, forming a profile line parallel to that of the nose. It is medium to narrow in breadth, and, in comparison to other Norwegian types, relatively flat in both planes. The browridges art usually present, but art weakly developed, and the depression of the nasal root moderate. The nose may be described as thin, steep-walled, and high-bridged. In profile, it is for the most part straight or slightly convex, with a high incidence of wavy forms, and there is usually a noticeable transition between the bony and cartilaginous portions. Owing to the thinness of the skin, the line of suture between the two nasal bones may frequently be observed. The tip of the nose is thin, and for the most part raised slightly above the horizontal plane. The nasal wings art compressed, and the nostrils form long ovals, set at a very acute angle from one another. These nostrils art visible from the side, and slightly visible from in front."

    Kielty fit that description.

    "The Racial History of Scandinavia An Outline" (1962, reprint from Mankind Quarterly) by Bertil Lundman:

    "Moreover, it is possible to classify the basic Nordic stock into several geographically defined substocks: a southwestern type, usually of sparse build (which naturally, most closely resembles the more Nordic areas of northeastern England and southeastern Scotland); a medium type in the central provinces which is somewhat shorter and a very tall type in northern central Sweden and the adjacent parts of northern Sweden and Noway."

    The "southwestern type", sparse build type is the so-called Gothic ("Göta typ") Nordid. The "medium type" is the so-called Västmanlandid (named after the country Västmanland, called "Västmanlandstyp"). The "very tall type" is the so-called Trönder type.

    Loki’s observation of the high-rooted and slightly convex (in actuality concavo-convex, read the description below) noses in northeastern England indicates that it is the same "southwestern type", Lundman’s Gothic Nordid.

    The Nordid race is tall (Mondandon mention 173 cm, but one should rather say like Hildèn 176 cm), have light (Fischer 25-26), yellow-blond, or ash-blond, wavy hair, moderately long-headed (Breadth-Length Index 76-79, with average lenght of 190 mm and breadth of 147 mm), the form of the skull when seen from above is oval, fairly visible browridges, strong chin.

    The Nordid skull is narrow and long, with a jutting occiput and the top (crown) of the head is fairly flat. The face is fairly narrow, but not very sharp, that one knew in the Nordic antiquity. Very "aristocratic" (or aristo-morphic) faces are often indicative of non-Nordid mixture. The forehead is rather low and narrow and somewhat sloping. The eyes lie deep under moderately thick, straight and even eyebrows. The nose is mostly straight, at times somewhat upturned, but often with a small elevation (or hump) in the middle of the nasal bone. Convex, in other words, hooked, it is rarely, and in many regions, it is never among the more pure Nordid types. The lips are fairly thin, eyes are often shallow.

    The eye colour is blue or grey. Although one sometimes find an almost imperceptible yellow-brown ring around the pupil, with that one cannot say those concerned are less pure in type. The hair of course darkens with age among the most, but "should" not become too dark. The skin is light and pink (rosy). The most deviating is the relatively short, more upturned-nosed variant, which is mainly spread in Inner Scandinavia and Eastern Norway, called "västmanlandstypen" or Västmanlandid.

    There are other local types, Gothic in west and Trönder in eastern and Northern Scandinavia; they simply differ in some negligible details in the face profile. In southernmost Norway, there is a special sub-type of the Gothic, "agdertypen", gigantic and broader-faced. Our friend Sigrun may be predominantly that, if not with Norwegian Trönder, Irish Brünn or German Falid. "Agdertypen" is in many respects similar to the Falid (Fälische rasse) type in northwestern Germany ("Hindenburg’s-type"). The race in the forest villages of upper Dalarna, which is called Dalo-Falid, is perhaps a misnomer, it may instead refer to the dark and peculiar Cro-Magnid types with strong browridges, broad faces and thick, broad upturned, snubbed (mostly women, but also men) noses. It is the Tydal (also called Old-Atlantic) race, so-called after a mountain parish in Norway, moments southeast of Trondheim, where the Norwegian anthropologist Bryn discovered it around three quarter of a century ago. Besides, this or similar types are spread out here and there in the Nordic and in northwestern Europe’s barren regions down to the Canary Islands and the Atlas mountains.

    Flodström’s "östsvenska" (Eastern Swedish) and "västsvenska" (Western Swedish) does not exactly correspond to Bryn’s "nord – and sydnorska" (north – and South Norwegian (which he on good grounds want to call "svea – and göta-typen"), and none of those gentleman knew about the Västmanlandid that Bertil Lundman measured and explored. The main differences between the North Norwegian, Trönder, svea – and Eastern Swedish type on one hand and the South Norwegian, göta – or West Swedish type on the other seem to be the following:

    The former, which is preferably called "sveatypen" by the Swedish ethnologist Rolf Nordenstreng who got verbal information from Bryn, is taller and with a more robust build, have steeper forehead, markedly deep nasal depression and a nose, which have a mild angle with the forehead. The face is – for being of Nordid type – relatively broad. The eyes are dark blue or dark grey. Hair colour is yellow-brown.

    The latter, "götatypen", is somewhat smaller and slimmer, with a narrower, longer head and a more sloping forehead. The nose has none or a very mild depression and continues to a great deal the foreheads profile line, without forming any angle. The face is narrow, eyes light blue, hair ash-blond, darkens early. This latter type is the most common variation of the Nordid race in the British Islands, and it probably came to Scandinavia during the younger Stone Age, wandering from west over the flat land which now make up a big part of the North Sea ground, which then were dry land. However, the Svea (or better known as Trönder) type have probably come from Northern Germany, during a period of the Stone Age when the Baltic Sea (Östersjön) was narrow, with an enormous Bornholm as junction between Scania (Skåne) and Mecklenburg (see Otto Rydbeck, "Stenåldershavets nivåförändringar", the Stone Age ocean’s altitude alterations, 1928.)

    Frans can perhaps give detailed information and a better description about the Nordid race.

    Kielty’s facial profile corresponds very well to that type, at least to my understanding of what Gothic Nordid is. The nose is long, narrow and concavo-convex. The forehead is sloping well, and the nose does not form an angle with the foreheads profile line. He is tall with a lean body. The face is long and narrow, head is long, vault is low, skin is light and pinkish, and hair is light blond and eyes are light blue. What else do you want for a very (West)-Nordid phenotype?







    Quote Originally Posted by providenje
    He's not VERY nordid to me. Look at his nose:

    The other man's nose looks more nordid and he probably has "fancy boy" highlights in his hair.
    Last edited by Glenlivet; Sunday, August 17th, 2003 at 09:29 PM.

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    Ok, he is very Nordid.

    But very West Nordid.

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