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Thread: R1a, how to explain?

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    R1a, how to explain?

    2.7.2. Y-chromosomal landscape in Siberia and Central Asia
    Large regions of North Asia are inhospitable and have never supported high
    population densities. Low population size leads to strong genetic drift and such
    regions show patterns of diversity that differ from that in more densely
    populated areas (Avise 2000). Characteristic features common to many native
    Siberian populations studied by Karafet et al. (1999; 2002); Derenko et al.
    (2002); Lell et al. (2002); Stepanov (2002) were pointed out by Karafet et al.
    (2002) as follows:
    25
    (i) only four major clades (N, C, Q and R) describe more than 96% of Siberian
    Y chromosomes.
    (ii) many individual populations have a single predominant haplogroup (like
    90% of Oroqens, 74% of Evens, about 70% of Eastern Evenks, 60% of
    Buryats and 52% of Mongolians belong to hg C, about 90% of Yakuts and
    54% Eskimos to hg N3, 92% of Nganassans and 74% of Tundra Nenets
    belong to N2, 94% of Kets and 66% of Selkups belong to hg Q and 47% of
    Altaians to hg R1a).
    Hg Q has quite restricted spread in
    Siberia, being highly frequent only in Kets and Selkups, while its sub-clade Q3
    is predominant among Native Americans but absent in Asians. Hg R1a with a
    frequency of 10.3% was concentrated in the Altaian and some Northwest
    Siberian populations.


    Phylogeographic analysis of haplogroups with frequencies more than 10% in
    Native Siberians (Hammer and Zegura 2002) revealed that the two most
    frequent haplogroups were sub-clades of hg N: N3 with a frequency of 22.7%,
    was widely distributed within Siberia and northern Europe, whereas N2, a
    sister-clade of N3, with a frequency of 19.7%, had a much more spotty
    distribution which correlated with the spread of languages — 92% of the
    Siberians with this haplogroup are the Uralic-speakers. A common haplogroup
    present in Native Siberians is C3(xM48) defined by M217 (see fig. 2) present at
    frequency of 9.5% with one major sub-haplogroup C3c (13%; defined by M48)
    in mostly Altaic-speaking populations. Hg Q has quite restricted spread in
    Siberia, being highly frequent only in Kets and Selkups, while its sub-clade Q3
    is predominant among Native Americans but absent in Asians. Hg R1a with a
    frequency of 10.3% was concentrated in the Altaian and some Northwest
    Siberian populations.
    he R1a1 component of the Y-chromosome diversity among the Czechs suggests a rapid demographic expansion beginning about 60 to 80 generations ago, which would equate to about 1500 years ago (approx. 500 AD) to 2000 years ago (approx. 1 AD) with a generation time of 25 years. This means that the Y-chromosome distribution in the modern Czech population may be nothing but a magnified and perhaps somewhat modified version of the Y-chromosome distribution as it was in the region where the ancestors of the Czechs dwelt during the times of the Roman Empire, and it would be unwise to project this Y-chromosome distribution back to the population of Proto-Indo-Europeans, who may have lived as early as 8000 years ago at a time when population sizes around the world were generally very small and many regions were only beginning to host settled human cultures, facilitating great fluctuations in gene frequencies due to founder effects and genetic drift.

    Haplogroup R1a1 (M17) is spread across Eurasia. It is common in Europe, northern Central Asia, and South Asia. In Europe, the highest frequencies are found among Eastern Europeans. Today it is found with its highest levels in Ukraine [1], where more than one out of two men has this haplogroup. It is found in high frequencies as well in Russia, Poland, and the Czech Republic, to name only a few, and relatively high frequencies are also found in Northern Europe and is believed to have been spread across Europe by the Vikings, which may account for the existence of it in, among other places, the British Isles.

    The structure of female (mtDNA) and male (Y-chromosome haplotypes) lineages in the Yakut population was examined. To determine mtDNA haplotypes, sequencing of hypervariable segment I and typing of haplotype-specific point substitutions in the other parts of the mtDNA molecule were performed. Y haplogroups were identified through typing of biallelic polymorphisms in the nonrecombining part of the chromosome. Haplotypes within haplogroups were analyzed with seven microsatellite loci. Mitochondrial gene pool of Yakuts is mainly represented by the lineages of eastern Eurasian origin (haplogroups A, B, C, D, G, and F). In Yakuts haplogroups C and D showing the total frequency of almost 80% and consisting of 12 and 10 different haplopypes, respectively, were the most frequent and diverse. The total part of the lineages of western Eurasian origin ("Caucasoid") was about 6% (4 haplotypes, haplogroups H, J, and U). Most of Y chromosomes in the Yakut population (87%) belonged to haplogroup N3 (HG16), delineated by the T-C substitution at the Tat locus. Chromosomes of haplogroup N3 displayed the presence of 19 microsatellite haplotypes, the most frequent of which encompassed 54% chromosomes of this haplogroup. Median network of haplogroup N3 in Yakuts demonstrated distinct "starlike phylogeny". Male lineages of Yakuts were shown to be closest to those of Eastern Evenks.


    i assume that if it is not vikings who drove to northeast with longboats, probably it was huns who brought r1a to northeast. that would be around 200 BC-500 AC.
    kind regards

  2. #2
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    Re: r1a*, how to explain?

    Quote Originally Posted by torrent View Post
    2.7.2. Y-chromosomal landscape in Siberia and Central Asia
    Large regions of North Asia are inhospitable and have never supported high
    population densities. Low population size leads to strong genetic drift and such
    regions show patterns of diversity that differ from that in more densely
    populated areas (Avise 2000). Characteristic features common to many native
    Siberian populations studied by Karafet et al. (1999; 2002); Derenko et al.
    (2002); Lell et al. (2002); Stepanov (2002) were pointed out by Karafet et al.
    (2002) as follows:
    25
    i) only four major clades (N, C, Q and R) describe more than 96% of Siberian
    Y chromosomes.
    (ii) many individual populations have a single predominant haplogroup (like
    90% of Oroqens, 74% of Evens, about 70% of Eastern Evenks, 60% of
    Buryats and 52% of Mongolians belong to hg C, about 90% of Yakuts and
    54% Eskimos to hg N3, 92% of Nganassans and 74% of Tundra Nenets
    belong to N2, 94% of Kets and 66% of Selkups belong to hg Q and 47% of
    Altaians to hg R1a).
    Hg Q has quite restricted spread in
    Siberia, being highly frequent only in Kets and Selkups, while its sub-clade Q3
    is predominant among Native Americans but absent in Asians. Hg R1a with a
    frequency of 10.3% was concentrated in the Altaian and some Northwest
    Siberian populations.


    Phylogeographic analysis of haplogroups with frequencies more than 10% in
    Native Siberians (Hammer and Zegura 2002) revealed that the two most
    frequent haplogroups were sub-clades of hg N: N3 with a frequency of 22.7%,
    was widely distributed within Siberia and northern Europe, whereas N2, a
    sister-clade of N3, with a frequency of 19.7%, had a much more spotty
    distribution which correlated with the spread of languages — 92% of the
    Siberians with this haplogroup are the Uralic-speakers. A common haplogroup
    present in Native Siberians is C3(xM48) defined by M217 (see fig. 2) present at
    frequency of 9.5% with one major sub-haplogroup C3c (13%; defined by M48)
    in mostly Altaic-speaking populations. Hg Q has quite restricted spread in
    Siberia, being highly frequent only in Kets and Selkups, while its sub-clade Q3
    is predominant among Native Americans but absent in Asians. Hg R1a with a
    frequency of 10.3% was concentrated in the Altaian and some Northwest
    Siberian populations.
    he R1a1 component of the Y-chromosome diversity among the Czechs suggests a rapid demographic expansion beginning about 60 to 80 generations ago, which would equate to about 1500 years ago (approx. 500 AD) to 2000 years ago (approx. 1 AD) with a generation time of 25 years. This means that the Y-chromosome distribution in the modern Czech population may be nothing but a magnified and perhaps somewhat modified version of the Y-chromosome distribution as it was in the region where the ancestors of the Czechs dwelt during the times of the Roman Empire, and it would be unwise to project this Y-chromosome distribution back to the population of Proto-Indo-Europeans, who may have lived as early as 8000 years ago at a time when population sizes around the world were generally very small and many regions were only beginning to host settled human cultures, facilitating great fluctuations in gene frequencies due to founder effects and genetic drift.

    Haplogroup R1a1 (M17) is spread across Eurasia. It is common in Europe, northern Central Asia, and South Asia. In Europe, the highest frequencies are found among Eastern Europeans. Today it is found with its highest levels in Ukraine [1], where more than one out of two men has this haplogroup. It is found in high frequencies as well in Russia, Poland, and the Czech Republic, to name only a few, and relatively high frequencies are also found in Northern Europe and is believed to have been spread across Europe by the Vikings, which may account for the existence of it in, among other places, the British Isles.

    The structure of female (mtDNA) and male (Y-chromosome haplotypes) lineages in the Yakut population was examined. To determine mtDNA haplotypes, sequencing of hypervariable segment I and typing of haplotype-specific point substitutions in the other parts of the mtDNA molecule were performed. Y haplogroups were identified through typing of biallelic polymorphisms in the nonrecombining part of the chromosome. Haplotypes within haplogroups were analyzed with seven microsatellite loci. Mitochondrial gene pool of Yakuts is mainly represented by the lineages of eastern Eurasian origin (haplogroups A, B, C, D, G, and F). In Yakuts haplogroups C and D showing the total frequency of almost 80% and consisting of 12 and 10 different haplopypes, respectively, were the most frequent and diverse. The total part of the lineages of western Eurasian origin ("Caucasoid") was about 6% (4 haplotypes, haplogroups H, J, and U). Most of Y chromosomes in the Yakut population (87%) belonged to haplogroup N3 (HG16), delineated by the T-C substitution at the Tat locus. Chromosomes of haplogroup N3 displayed the presence of 19 microsatellite haplotypes, the most frequent of which encompassed 54% chromosomes of this haplogroup. Median network of haplogroup N3 in Yakuts demonstrated distinct "starlike phylogeny". Male lineages of Yakuts were shown to be closest to those of Eastern Evenks.


    i assume that if it is not vikings who drove to northeast with longboats, probably it was huns who brought r1a to northeast. that would be around 200 BC-500 AC.
    kind regards
    The Alans or Alani (occasionally but more rarely termed Alauni or Halani) were an Iranian nomadic group among the Sarmatian people, warlike nomadic pastoralists of varied backgrounds, who spoke an Iranian language and to a large extent shared a common culture.
    Name

    The various forms of Alan — Greek: Αλανοί, Αλαννοί; Chinese: 阿蘭聊 Alanliao (Pinyin) in the 2nd century CE[1], 阿蘭 Alan (Pinyin) in the 3rd century CE[2] — and Iron (a self-designation of the Alan's modern Ossetian descendants, etymologically unrelated to the metal iron are Iranian dialectical forms of Aryan[3] . These and other variants of Aryan (such as Iran), were common self-designations of the Indo-Iranians, the common ancestors of the Indo-Aryans and Iranian peoples to whom the Alans belonged.

    The Alans were also known over the course of their history by another group of related names including the variations Asi, As, and Os (Hungarian Jász, Russian Jasy, Georgian Osi). It is this name which is the root of the modern Ossetian. [4]

    [edit]
    Nasidze et al. (2004) found that while North Ossetians (Digorians) share similarities in terms of mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal DNA, and the Ardonian subgroup of Digorian in particular are close to Iranians of Isfahan, South Ossetians (Ironians) are closer to Slavic populations in terms of mitochondrial DNA, and closer to Caucasian groups such as the Nakh in frequncy terms of Y-chromosomal DNA. In North Ossetians, Y-chromosomal DNA is dominated by G*, while South Ossetians have high frequencies of haplogroups F* and E*. Both groups have marginal R1a frequency in contrast with linguistic association Ossetians with Scythian ancenstry.

    E* C* K* P1 P* R1* R1a1 F* G* J2* I*
    Groups N YAP M9 M142 M45 M173 M17 M89 M201 M172 M170 HD

    Digora 31 0 0 0 0 0.06 0 0 0.03 0.74 0.03 0.13 0.440 Nasidze et al., (2004)
    Ardon 28 0 0 0.07 0 0.04 0 0.04 0.04 0.21 0.29 0.32 0.788 Nasidze et al., (2004)
    Zil'ga 23 0 0 0.130 0 0 0 0 0.043 0.565 0.261 0 0.620 Nasidze et al., (2006)
    Zamankul 23 0 0 0.217 0 0 0 0 0.087 0.609 0.087 0 0.590 Nasidze et al., (2006)
    Alagir 24 0 0 0.083 0.083 0 0.042 0 0 0.750 0.042 0 0.440 Nasidze et al., (2006)

    S. Os. 17 0.18 0 0 0 0 0.12 0.06 0.41 -? 0.24 0 0.772 Wells et al., (2001)
    N Σ 146

    [edit]


    i edited some parts because someone had done it better and even it had been put on wikipedia though i am not sure how they decided that schythians were rich in r1a. obviously they were not, as we can see that the onset of r1a presence among cheques coincides with late sarmatian period..
    But i think it is still clear enough to see that ossetians who are the remnants of schytians dont have much r1a. Therefore I think that schytians may have had not much of r1a. This may be researched. it would be interesting.
    kind regards

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    Re: r1a*, how to explain?

    bythe way,
    multiregionalism does not exist, if it did, homo erectus would be around the F haplogroup and still alive.
    Groups descended from Haplogroup F (GR)

    The groups descending from haplogroup F are found in some 90% of the world's population, but almost exclusively outside of sub-Saharan Africa. The mutation of IJ corresponds to a wave of migration out of the Middle East or Western Asia some 45 kya that subsequently spread into Europe (Cro-Magnon). Haplogroup G originated in the Middle East or Caucasus, or perhaps further east as far as Pakistan some 30 kya, and spread to Europe with the Neolithic Revolution. Haplogroup H probably occurred in India some 30-40 kya, and remains prevalent there, spreading westwards in historical times with the gypsy migration. Haplogroup K probably originated in southwestern Asia and spread widely to Africa, Eurasia, Australia and the South Pacific.

    * Haplogroup G (M201) ca. 30 kya Found in many ethnic groups in Eurasia and Oceania; most common in the Caucasus and Anatolia; in Europe mainly in Sardinia, northern Italy, northern Spain, the Tyrol, as well as Bohemia, Moravia; Britain and Norway at only 2%
    o Haplogroup G1
    o Haplogroup G2
    o Haplogroup G3
    * Haplogroup H (M52) Found in India, Sri Lanka
    o Haplogroup H1
    o Haplogroup H2
    * Haplogroup IJ (S2, S22) ca. 45 kya
    o Haplogroup I (M170, M258) Found in northern Europe, southeast Europe, Sardinia, the Middle East
    + Haplogroup I1 (P38)
    # Haplogroup I1a Found in northern Europe
    # Haplogroup I1b Found in southeast Europe, Sardinia
    o Haplogroup J (M304, S6, S34, S35)
    + Haplogroup J* (minimal distribution)
    + Haplogroup J1 Associated with Semitic peoples: mainly in the Middle East, Ethiopia, North Africa
    + Haplogroup J2 (M172) Found mainly in the Mediterranean basin (esp. Italy, Greece, and the Balkans), Turkey, Georgia, Kurds, Central Asia, South Asia, Somalia
    * Haplogroup K (M9) Found in New Guinea, Australia
    Haplogroup I1a (Y-DNA)
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    In human genetics, Haplogroup I1a (M253, M307, P30, P40) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup occurring at greatest frequency in Scandinavia. It displays a very clear frequency gradient, with a peak frequency of approximately 35% among the populations of southern Norway, southwestern Sweden, and Denmark, and rapidly decreasing frequencies toward the edges of the historically Germanic-influenced world. Bryan Sykes in his book Blood of the Isles & his other book Saxons, Vikings & Celts gives the populations associated with I1a the name of the nordic deity Wodan for a clan patriarch, much as he did for mitochondrial haplogroups in his work The Seven Daughters of Eve.

    Outside Fennoscandia, distribution of Haplogroup I1a is closely correlated with that of Haplogroup I1b2; but among Scandinavians (including both Germanic and Uralic peoples of the region) nearly all the Haplogroup I Y-chromosomes are I1a. Another characteristic of the Scandinavian I1a Y-chromosomes is their rather low haplotype diversity (STR diversity): a greater variety of Haplogroup I1a Y-chromosomes has been found among the French and Italians, despite the much lower overall frequency of Haplogroup I1a among the modern French and Italian populations. Taken together, this suggests that the Haplogroup I element of the ancestry of Scandinavians might be descended from a very small Paleolithic population of Southern European extraction, which became distinct from the ancestral population of Haplogroup I1a individuals outside Scandinavia.

    It is conjectured that this shared ancestral population of I1a and I2b, distinct from I1b1*, may have weathered the last ice age in a refuge located somewhere in the Iberian Peninsula or southern France, or perhaps the Italian Peninsula; after the end of the ice age, some of them headed northward and repopulated Northwest Europe and Scandinavia. This population appears to have carried haplogroups I1a and I1b2 at significant frequencies, with a numerical superiority of Haplogroup I1a. Their descendants are primarily found among the Germanic populations of Northern Europe and the bordering Uralic and Celtic populations. Although even in traditionally Germanic demographics, the carriers of I1a are often overshadowed by the more prevalent carriers of Haplogroup R.

    One-third of the studied SEE Y chromosomes has the derived P37 C allele and is classified to haplogroup I1b* (xM26) (fig. 2). A detailed survey demonstrates that I1b* (xM26) lineages reach maximum frequency in SEE (fig. 3C) and that I1b* (xM26) STR variance peaks over a large geographic region encompassing both southeastern and central Europe (fig. 3D). I1b* (xM26) frequency peaks in Herzegovinians (64%) and Bosnians (52%) while preserving substantial (30%) frequencies in all SEE populations with the exception of two reproductively isolated and non-slavic speaking populations, Kosovar Albanians and Macedonian Romani (fig. 3A). The incidence of I1b* (xM26) decreases from SEE toward western (from 20% in Slovenians abruptly to 1% in northern Italians) and southern (17%–18% in Albanians and northern Greeks, 8% in southern Greeks, 2% in Turks) and retains frequencies of 7%–22% in central and eastern Europe (table 1). The highest STR variance of I1b* (xM26) lineages (0.34 to 0.23) is in Bosnians, Czechs and Slovaks, Hungarians, Herzegovinians, and Serbians (fig. 3B and D). In both cases, when all studied SEE populations are considered together and upon exclusion of Kosovar Albanians and Macedonian Romani, I1b* (xM26) frequency and variance do not show significant correlations with geography (table 2). Moreover, I1b* (xM26) phylogenetic network (fig. 8A) shows high haplotype diversity and sharing of founder haplotype among investigated populations. In fact, homogenous distribution of elevated frequency accompanied with high diversity of I1b* (xM26) lineages among different SEE populations may be viewed as a genetic signature of their common paternal history over a long period of time. Rootsi et al. (2004)Go estimated that I1b* (xM26) diverged from I* at 10.7 ± 4.8 kilo years ago (KYA), possibly relating to the post–Younger Dryas (YD) climate amelioration in Europe, and that I1b* (xM26) expansion occurred around the early Holocene at 7.6 ± 2.7 KYA. Considering only our SEE sample, the coalescent estimate of I1b* (xM26) is substantially older (11.1 ± 4.8 KYA). This finding suggests that the I1b* (xM26) lineages might have expanded from SEE to central, eastern, and southern Europe, presumably not earlier than the YD to Holocene transition and not later than the early Neolithic.





    let us see, we believe that the tall and clever and loving and caring cousins of us could not survive the ice age but our ancestors could, i dont think that there are any remnants of dordogne people ,at least, in europe. the ice age refuge in balkans dos not exist for example, those days the straights did not exist .
    I and J are brothers. in the beginning of20th century there were 4-5 million people in persia and after the second world war, arabs counted around 50-60 millions almost the same size of britain only.
    those ice age refugees are completely fictional. our danubeans are ,as anyone can see, I and J haplogroups who are very recently out of africa and one of the clans settled in Bosnia and they were somewhat successull and became the Ib subclade who were probably around 4-10 people in the beginning. if we have to asscociate the haplogroup I with anyone it is probably TRB.
    neolithic mediterraneans were not poor men at all they were rich enough to feel the necessity to build a wall around thier cities. Catalhoyuk was inhabited by thousands of people 5000-8000 starting from 7500 BC. Sparta at the maximum of it is power was 10000. it was the Childe's exageration to impose that hunter gatherers did not lead such a miserable life and even though danubens had notbeen successfull, this cannot be generalized to all mediterraneans.
    kind regards
    Last edited by torrent; Wednesday, February 28th, 2007 at 10:52 AM.

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