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Thread: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

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    Post Re: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    I always thought the red hair came from the Danes who established the Danelaw and other Scandinavians.
    Where on earth did you hear that one?
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    Post Re: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenlivet
    I read that.

    But what makes them think that the "genetic characteristics" of most Saxons, Vikings and Normans are not "passed down from a few thousand Ice Age hunters".

    I think what they are essentially saying is that Ancient Britons are genetically distinct from later migrants.

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    Post Re: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Vetinari
    Where on earth did you hear that one?
    It's common knowledge. My ex g/f's ancestors came from Wexford Ireland and that Wexford is known for it's Viking heritage. She has red hair, pale skin and blue eyes.
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    Post Re: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenlivet
    I read that.

    But what makes them think that the "genetic characteristics" of most Saxons, Vikings and Normans are not "passed down from a few thousand Ice Age hunters".


    wasn't there a study that said 80% of northern european genes came from the Upper Paleolithic? i've read that said often (here!) but not seen where it came from (it'd be nice if someone has it and can show me. ) I wonder if it's the same 80%, huh?

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    Post Re: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

    " Another study of the Y-chromosome of Europeans used 22 markers in 1,007 men across Europe Over 80 percent of the European genes were traced to two migrations of Paleolithic ancestors around 40,000 and 22,000 years ago, respectively. Twenty percent of the European genes were from Neolithic farmers who entered the continent about 10,000 years ago (Semino, O., et al, 2000)."

    http://www.ecotao.com/holism/hu_mod.htm

    "Northern Europeans could be descended from as few as 50 individuals who survived the last ice age.

    New DNA evidence suggests that a few hundred Stone Age hunter-gatherers were the ancestors of many modern day northern Europeans."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1334512.stm



    An individual may have ancestors of both lineages. What they study is deep ancestry. Autosomal DNA can give a broader picture of where one's ancestors came from, on both sides of the family.

    Quote Originally Posted by Startide
    wasn't there a study that said 80% of northern european genes came from the Upper Paleolithic? i've read that said often (here!) but not seen where it came from (it'd be nice if someone has it and can show me. ) I wonder if it's the same 80%, huh?

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    Post Re: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Frid
    A member asked me to post some more about the article. It is about a survey regarding the British DNA-profile. DNA samples of 1700 men in various British small town was compared with 400 DNA samples from Denmark, Norway and Germany. The Y-chromosome proved to be more or less identical, and this, argues the scientists, proves that they are related. Sixty percent of the men who lives on the northern Scottish islands have Norwegian ancestors while men in central and eastern England have Danish and Saxon (Anglosaxon) ancestry. Southern England and Ireland have mostly celtic DNA. According to the map which was included in the article Saxon and Danish DNA can be found as far up as the Northwest Highlands. Norwegian DNA can be found at the area around Northwest Highlands down to Firth of Clyde (incidentally the word firth comes from the Norwegian word fjord) as well as Isle of Man and the Cumbrian Mountains area. The celtic DNA area is located at the Cambrian Mountains area stretching eastwards towards a line between Wye, Welshpool and Birkenhead (Birkenhead being another name of Scandinavian origin).
    So, isn't your amendment in opposition to the original premise? It seems immigration did have a profound effect in Britain. Also, as was mentioned, isn't it possible and probably that the same UP descendants were among the immigrants, in about the same proportions, as were the original inhabitants?

    Also, since we are discussing genetics, I would feel better with a geneticist rather than an archaeologist discussing this topic as they are no more able to offer an expert opinion than anyone at Skadi (maybe less able).

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    Post Re: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

    It is indeed confusing. My feeling is that there are a lot of misunderstandings in this fresh field of science called genetics. Simply put, we know too little.

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    Post Re: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    It's common knowledge. My ex g/f's ancestors came from Wexford Ireland and that Wexford is known for it's Viking heritage. She has red hair, pale skin and blue eyes.
    Oh, its just a myth then. I thought you had read it in a scientific or historical source.
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    Post Re: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Vetinari
    Oh, its just a myth then. I thought you had read it in a scientific or historical source.
    It is not a "myth" as you say, Vikings did settle in Wexford and also established Dublin. The Danes conquered England as well and established a territory known as the "Danelaw".


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danelaw

    http://www.inhp.com/Wexford/festival2005.html
    Last edited by Imperator X; Monday, August 22nd, 2005 at 09:45 PM.
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    Post Re: British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

    I havent heard red hair coming from the Danes before.
    Theres been red haired people in Scotland well before the Danes ever arrived. The Picts had red hair.
    Also if Tacitus described the local Britons as having red hair then i think its pretty conclusive that red hair did not arrive in the British Isles from the Danes.
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