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Thread: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

  1. #21
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    Post Re: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch
    Many were robbed (lots were wearing expensive ornamentation) and killed by the local Irish, or handed over to the English.
    Some were, it depended on which territory they ended up in. Some clans had thrown their lot in with the English, other resisted the English and aided the shipwrecked to get to Scotland and fom there to the Spanish Netherlands

    Interesting contemporary account of Captain Cuellar (in the original Spanish & English) -

    "Francisco de Cuellar was aboard the last group of Armada ships wrecked in Ireland, on 25 September 1588. He came ashore at Streedagh strand, north of Sligo Bay, territory controlled by the O'Conors. Moving on into Leitrim he met with Brian O'Rourke of Breffni, before staying at the McClancy castle at Rossclogher for three months. He then went to the place where "Alonzo de Leya y el Conde de Paredes y Don Tomas de Granvela" were lost, which is taken to be Dunluce Castle on the north coast of Antrim, east of Portrush. Then, in search of passage to Scotland, he went to the territory of O'Cahan around Coleraine. His use of the term 'savage' to describe the Irish should not necessarily be regarded as pejorative. Inhabitants of Galicia in Spain were referred to in the same way by contemporaries. Although written 'with emotion recollected in tranquility', this eye-witness account of Gaelic life makes Francisco de Cuellar's letter a most valuable social document of the period.

    Hugh Allingham and Robert Crawford (Ballyshannon, 1897), from Cuellar's descriptions"



    http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T108200/



    The Spanish were hardly benefactors of the Irish, they were simply aiming at undermining their old English enemies through the back door.

    On the contrary, not only had the Spanish sent military aid to Ireland on several occasions, Spain accomodated the exiled Irish chiefs into the Spanish nobility, welcomed thousands of Irish every year into Spanish society, founded Irish colleges to train Irish clergy, etc.
    The relationship was a mutually beneficial one.
    Spain provided training, money, facilities, military power, etc
    Ireland provided a ready source of military recruits who were prized above all others by the Spanish for their courage and loyalty.

    The link in my previous post asks the question whether perhaps drained too many young men & nobles from Ireland and thus left it without a fighting body of men and intelligesa to lead them, but it's all speculative and hindsight now.
    Fate and luck, for better or worse, allowed things to turn out as they did today.
    Last edited by Milesian; Friday, August 26th, 2005 at 01:43 PM.

  2. #22
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    Post Re: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    The link in my previous post asks the question whether perhaps drained too many young men & nobles from Ireland and thus left it without a fighting body of men and intelligesa to lead them, but it's all speculative and hindsight now.
    Fate and luck, for better or worse, allowed things to turn out as they did today.
    Which is fine because ever since Ireland broke with the pound and adopted the Euro, their economy has boomed to become one of the richest in the EU and they are one of the top exporters of technology, especially Dell computers. See, the Irish break with the Brits not only politically and territorily, but also economically and look what it does, sky's the limit for Ireland.
    SVMDEVSSVMCAESARSVMCAELVMETINFERNVM

  3. #23
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    Post Re: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    Which is fine because ever since Ireland broke with the pound and adopted the Euro, their economy has boomed to become one of the richest in the EU and they are one of the top exporters of technology, especially Dell computers.
    I wouldn't take that as a sign of any real progress, to be honest.
    Simply because I don't think material gain is the be all and end all of everything.
    Ireland has had to sell her soul and become another decadent, immoral, plutocratic, mulicultural cesspit in order to reap the benefit of the Euro.
    Sure, Ireland now has financial centres, modern industries, millionaires, and all the other trappings of a modern developed nation.
    But it also has the mass immigration, social & moral decay, etc that goes along with those things.

    I'm not alone in that I would rather Ireland was a little more "backward" in order to regain much of what has been lost.
    Perhaps I'm just a reactionary though

    See, the Irish break with the Brits not only politically and territorily, but also economically and look what it does, sky's the limit for Ireland.
    Certainly, Ireland's economic growth outstrips the UK.
    It's not really practical to compare modern Ireland with Ireland under British rule. However, you are right that Ireland is certainly more affluent today.
    Not suprising though as Britian traditionally ran Ireland's native industries into the ground, raised prohibitive tariffs against Irish products when they endangered Britian's own trade, made the economy agrarian so as to become Britain's larder,etc.

    So no suprise indeed, that once that influence abated and those areas of Ireland given their independence were free to develop unhampered, that things materially improved.

  4. #24
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    Post Re: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

    On the contrary, not only had the Spanish sent military aid to Ireland on several occasions, Spain accomodated the exiled Irish chiefs into the Spanish nobility, welcomed thousands of Irish every year into Spanish society, founded Irish colleges to train Irish clergy, etc.
    The relationship was a mutually beneficial one.
    Spain provided training, money, facilities, military power, etc
    Ireland provided a ready source of military recruits who were prized above all others by the Spanish for their courage and loyalty.
    This doesn't exactly contradict what I said Of course, many of the Irish were also glad to have Spanish help in their fight against the English, I didn't intend to imply otherwise.

  5. #25
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    Post Re: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch
    This doesn't exactly contradict what I said
    I didn't say it did

    Of course, many of the Irish were also glad to have Spanish help in their fight against the English, I didn't intend to imply otherwise.
    The enemy of my enemy is my friend
    Of course, with Spain the connections are much deeper than that, but their certainly was an element of that. The same occurred with Ireland and France too (and even Germany to a lesser degree), as I'm sure you are aware.

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    Post Re: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    I didn't say it did
    Ah, good. But it was an implication wasn't it?

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend
    Well yes, I suppose you could put it that way

    But I think French and Spanish interference was mostly self-interest, and detrimental to Ireland. Some of the harsher English policies seem to have been designed out of concern that Spaniards and French might use Ireland as a springboard or base for invasion of England.

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    Post Re: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

    I'd have to think that this curly form of hair stems from some of the Upper-Paleolithic strains. UPs compose great portions of the populations inhabiting the British Isles.

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    Post Re: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad Cletus
    I'd have to think that this curly form of hair stems from some of the Upper-Paleolithic strains. UPs compose great portions of the populations inhabiting the British Isles.
    They do compose a considerable portion, but a UP phenotype tends to be associated more with wavy than curly hair. Curly hair in the British Isles is more frequently associated with a certain Mediterranid phenotype.

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    Re: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

    I just had to bump this to show my hair off a bit.

    Heres a picture of my from about 3-4 years ago.

    http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8...blue013la8.jpg 0_o

    My friends used to call me "Afro Dave" and I was pretty much known to everyone around as the kid with the fro ; ). This hair in me kind of makes sense, now that ive found out that my grandmother on my fathers side is mostly scottish (I guess the red, thick hair should have tipped me off ).
    My dads side of the family calls this "The Crane hair" because my grandmothers maidens name is Crane, a Scottish surname, and theres been many people down that line in her family that have similar or the same hair. My dad didnt quite get it, but me and my brother did.

    Heres me now, with a hair cut:

    http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5002/dave9ie7.jpg

    You can see my hair is kind of "straight", but still stands up because of how insanely thick it is. My sister didnt really get it, but her hairs still really thick.It doesnt quite get really curly or somewhat "frizzY" at the ends until it gets longer.

    Anyways, just thought i'd bump this for you all to get a laugh out of my white mans fro I got more pictures if this one wasnt funny enough for you.

  10. #30
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    Re: Nappy hair among some Irish, Scots.

    When I was younger I had dead straight, white-blond hair. It then got darker and curly and then wavy.

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