Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Nature vs Nurture

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Last Online
    Thursday, July 27th, 2006 @ 09:12 AM
    Subrace
    Other
    Gender
    Politics
    Race Realism/Hereditarian
    Religion
    Agnostic
    Posts
    598
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Question Nature vs Nurture

    What are your thoughts on the Scientifically pressing issue of Nature vs. Nurture?

    Is intelligence dictated primarily by genetics, with the influence of heredity taking precedence over environmental factors?

    And if so, just how great is the correlation between intelligence and genetics?

    Are all intelligences (Verbal, Visuo-Spatial etc) influenced equally by your genes?


    On the other hand, could what one inherits be of secondary importance in determining how clever, how intellectual, and how successful one is?


    Discussion encouraged.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Götterschicksal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, September 15th, 2003 @ 06:10 AM
    Location
    Österreich
    Gender
    Occupation
    Student
    Politics
    Europäer
    Posts
    135
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    It is to my knowledge that we are learning more and more that it is less 'nuture' through that Human Geneome Projekt. I heard that they found a gene that effects rather you are a pessicmistic person or a opptimistic person.
    „Sollten Sie dabei sein, wenn ich sterbe, so werden Sie sehen, dass ich ruhig dahinscheide; denn ich glaube, dass nach dem Tode alles zu Ende ist.”
    Friedrich der Große

  3. #3
    Member Borivoj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, March 29th, 2007 @ 04:52 AM
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    Athiest
    Posts
    188
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    I came to believe that people inherited potential in certain fields of knowledge, such as music or mathmatics, or certain behavorial traits such as aggression etc. However, it depended on the way the person was "nurtured" for these characteristics to show. For example, a person might be genetically inclined to be good at music, but if they are never exposed to it, they will never develop that talent. If the inherited characteristic is agression for example, the person might be brought up in an environment where that behavior is common, leading the person to be more likely to be aggressive than someone who doesn't have that that genetic trait. One question is how much influence does "nature" have over "nurture," or the other way around?
    Last edited by Borivoj; Friday, August 8th, 2003 at 08:17 PM.

  4. #4
    Purifier
    Azdaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Last Online
    Wednesday, April 25th, 2012 @ 01:23 AM
    Ethnicity
    Slavic/Germanic
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Politics
    -
    Posts
    572
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post

    My view on this is pretty close to Premisyl's.
    Each of us has an individual 'nature' which early on in life acts as the 'interpreter' of our experiences. The 'interpretation' itself is the personality, as we understand it.
    As the personality grows, it begins to interpret experiences on it's own, adding to itself. The original 'nature' is pushed somewhat into the background, though it continues to have a say in matters, usually via unconscious means.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Last Online
    Monday, December 11th, 2006 @ 02:51 AM
    Gender
    Posts
    2,312
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Trønder
    What are your thoughts on the Scientifically pressing issue of Nature vs. Nurture?

    Is intelligence dictated primarily by genetics, with the influence of heredity taking precedence over environmental factors?

    And if so, just how great is the correlation between intelligence and genetics?

    Are all intelligences (Verbal, Visuo-Spatial etc) influenced equally by your genes?


    On the other hand, could what one inherits be of secondary importance in determining how clever, how intellectual, and how successful one is?


    Discussion encouraged.
    Both environment and genetics play an important role in the development of intelligence. How much of the observable individual and racial IQ differences are explicable in terms of environment and how much in terms of biology, depends on the degree of social equality that exists in a society.

    Having made much progress in the last century regarding social justice and equality - e. g. concerning sufficient and relatively balanced nutrition for almost everyone, affordable access to educational institutions and libraries for almost everyone - IQ differences that can now be observed in Western societies seem to be predominantly caused by genetic-biological factors, according to the studies and estimates of many scientists (Eysenck, Jensen, Rushton) up to 80%. In other places, such as Africa, where a high degree of economic and social inequality exists, the environmental share to factual IQ development, and the potential to the improve the currently observed IQ levels are significanty higher. Obviously, in an "ideal", non-existing, "Communist" society of total social equality and justice, nearly all remaining IQ differences would be caused by genetic and other biological factors.
    .

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Saturday, July 15th, 2006 @ 10:25 PM
    Location
    Ireland
    Gender
    Posts
    107
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    I've read The Bell Curve a couple of times.It's a goldmine. Intelligence predicts social outcomes better than socioeconomic background does and intelligence is mostly hereditary.That simplifies matters a lot.It also says that cognitive ability can't be raised easily by environmental means.That's a good one to throw at the handwringers and black apologists.

    But...

    My pointing out these facts never seems to win them over.They don't shift from their belief that intelligence is a 'social construct'.Saying that culture-free tests show the biggest gaps between the races doesn't shift them either.It may be that no one has yet designed a IQ test in which blacks outperform whites,but they don't want to hear it.They won't budge.

    So I don't think the nature-nurture debate is very productive,at least not the way I've approached it.Part of the reason is that I have been completely closed to environmental arguments,to the reality of how people are improved all the time.In fact by rereading books such as The Bell Curve and Race,Evolution and Behaviour I've noticed parts that I ignored or skimmed over before.They accept nurture as an influence and say it openly,but I used to take that as smoke for the PC crowd:"Genetic influence (not determinism) is the key phrase,for genetic effects are necessarily mediated by neuroendocrine and psychosocial systems that have independent influence on phenotype behaviour." Race,Evolution and Behaviour,page 3.

    Until recently I didn't know that there are NO genetic differences between the races,except for 'disease markers'.That is,all those obvious physical and behavioural differences aren't genetically determined.If you read Rushton carefully you'll see that this is an unstated fact even as he lists all the many racial differences that do exist:twinning rates,crime levels,intelligence,longevity, and so on.I thought I was reading one thing but he was saying something else.The same with ADV:listen to the 29 July 2000 broadcast about AIDS rates among Africans. Dr.Pierce doesn't say that there are genetic differences between the races,just that there are differences.

    So what I'm trying to say in response to Tronder's question is don't dismiss nurture arguments out of hand.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Friday, March 25th, 2016 @ 07:28 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celt Australian
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordic
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Victoria Victoria
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Guerilla Philosopher
    Politics
    Aristotelian Nationalist
    Religion
    Roman Catholic
    Posts
    1,811
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post

    Nature provides the fuel, nurture conditions with what it's provided. That's my opinion anyway.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  8. #8
    ...................
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Allenson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, October 19th, 2017 @ 10:51 AM
    Ethnicity
    New English
    State
    Vermont Vermont
    Location
    Bliss Farm
    Gender
    Occupation
    Smuggler
    Politics
    Ruralist
    Religion
    Old Mother West Wind
    Posts
    3,908
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    18
    Thanked in
    18 Posts

    Post

    This isn't one of my stronger issues as I haven't yet read very much about it....

    ...however, it has always seemed to me to be a bit of a silly argument in terms of 'either/or'. I don't believe that there is an 'either/or' in this case but it is more of a matter of degrees of which is more influential in a particular individual...be it a person, a bear or an apple tree. My 'higher' education is in botany and horticulture and working with plants for many years now I've come to the notion that indeed, genetics is huge and is surely the underlying foundation of every living thing. Without a solid and strong genetic framework which will determine form and function, an organism is likely doomed. On the other hand, one can take the most perfectly engineered genetic specimen and place it in a crappy environment and not much will happen. The two certainly play off of each other throughout the course of an organisms life.

    If I had to break it down in terms of percentages with 100 being 'all', I'd weigh in at 60/40 or so in favor of genetics.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 30th, 2005 @ 11:10 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Gender
    Politics
    undecided
    Posts
    90
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Aloysha
    Nature provides the fuel, nurture conditions with what it's provided. That's my opinion anyway.
    I agree.

  10. #10
    Senior Member NormanBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, May 7th, 2009 @ 06:02 PM
    Ethnicity
    French Canadian
    Ancestry
    Franco-Norman
    Country
    Canada Canada
    Gender
    Age
    33
    Occupation
    University Student
    Posts
    454
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    10 Posts

    Post

    I think both have their influence on a person. Some people inherit certain talents from their parents or other ancestors. For example some people are tone deaf while others aren't. Some are more artistic than others. Some cannot do math no matter how much they study while to others it comes naturally. In many cases these things are hereditary.

    For the nurture part, it also plays a big role. A white child raised in a black home who has not come in contact with others of their race will most likely not inherit the "ways" of their ancestors but will most likely adopt the ways of the people they grew up with. This goes for any other such case.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The Nature and Value of Friendship
    By Frans_Jozef in forum Men, Women, & Relationships
    Replies: 106
    Last Post: Sunday, February 3rd, 2019, 10:45 AM
  2. Nature, Nurture, and Liberal Values
    By Storm Saxon in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Wednesday, February 29th, 2012, 02:45 PM
  3. Nature vs. Nurture: Mysteries of Individuality Unraveled
    By Zyklop in forum Population Genetics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Saturday, July 22nd, 2006, 04:45 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: Sunday, November 6th, 2005, 01:53 PM
  5. Crime, nature or nurture?
    By Alpine Storm in forum Psychology, Behavior, & Neuroscience
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Saturday, July 30th, 2005, 08:06 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •