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Thread: SNPA/Racial Compact Racial Composite Estimates

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    Arrow SNPA/Racial Compact Racial Composite Estimates

    A while back when this forum was still known as "Aryan Dawn," I posted a thread regarding the validity of SNPA (nordish.com) in reference to the site's classification of celebrities into various sub-racial categories.

    Well, this thread will deal with the accuracy of nordish.com regarding the estimations of the racial composition of each respective European nation.

    The figures are derived from Richard McCullochs's site (racialcompact.com).

    Figures which I have deemed unplausible are bolded. Explanations are below

    Estimated Racial Composition and Nordish Percentage of Indigenous European Populations:

    Sweden = 70% Hallstatt Nordic (Carleton Coon described Sweden as a refuge area for the classic Nordic race), 10% Borreby (most common in the southwest coastal region), 10% Fälish (most common in Dalarna [Kopparberg] and the southwest coastal region), 5% Trønder (most common near the central Norwegian border), 5% East Baltic = 100% Nordish (95% central and 5% periphery types)

    Norway = 45% Trønder (most common in the west), 30% Hallstatt Nordic (most common in the southeast area around Oslo), 10% Borreby (most common in the southwest), 7% Fälish (most common in the south), 5% East Baltic (most common in the far north), 3% Palaeo-Atlantid (found in western coastal areas) = 100% Nordish (92% central and 8% periphery types)

    Denmark = 40% Borreby, 30% Fälish, 20% Hallstatt Nordic, 5% Anglo-Saxon, 5% East Baltic = 100% Nordish (95% central and 5% periphery types)

    Iceland = 60% Trønder, 22% Borreby, 15% Brünn, 3% Palaeo-Atlantid = 100% Nordish (97% central and 3% periphery types)

    England = 30% Keltic Nordic (derived from pre-Roman Iron Age invaders), 20% Anglo-Saxon (post-Roman Germanic invaders, most common in the southeast, especially East Anglia), 15% North-Atlantid and 10% Palaeo-Atlantid (blend of Mesolithic Atlanto-Mediterranean invaders with both earlier and later arrivals; most common in the Midlands and northwest), 8% Hallstatt Nordic (of Viking and Norman derivation), 5% Brünn , 5% Trønder (of Norwegian Viking derivation; most common in the northeast), 3% Borreby and 2% Fälish (both of Viking and Norman derivation; associated with the landed gentry; source of the "John Bull" type), 2% Noric (from Bronze-Age invaders) = 100% Nordish (73% central and 27% periphery types)

    Scotland = 30% Keltic Nordic, 22% Trønder (most common in the northeast), 10% North-Atlantid (most common in the west), 10% Anglo-Saxon (most common in the southeast), 10% Palaeo-Atlantid (most common in the southwest), 5% Brünn , 5% Hallstatt Nordic, 4% Borreby, 4% Noric = 100% Nordish (76% central and 24% periphery types)

    Ireland = 40% Brünn (indigenous Paleolithic inhabitants, most common in the west), 30% Keltic Nordic (most common in the east), 9% North-Atlantid , 9% Borreby, 3% Palaeo-Atlantid , 3% Trønder, 2% Noric, 2% Anglo-Saxon, 1% Hallstatt Nordic = 100% Nordish (86% central and 14% periphery types)

    Wales = 35% North-Atlantid, 30% Palaeo-Atlantid, 30% Keltic Nordic, 5% other types = 100% Nordish (35% central and 65% periphery types)

    The Netherlands = 50% Keltic Nordic (of Frankish derivation), 20% Borreby, 10% Anglo-Saxon (most common in Frisia), 10% Fälish, 10% Hallstatt Nordic = 100% Central Nordish

    Belgium = 60% Keltic Nordic (most common in Flanders, derived from the ancient Belgae and Franks), 35% Borreby and 5% Alpine (both most common in Wallonia) = 95% Central Nordish

    Luxembourg = 80% Alpine, 15% Borreby, 5% other Nordish types = 20% Central Nordish

    Germany = 25% Borreby (most common in the Rhine and Ruhr valleys and the north), 20% Fälish (most common in the north), 15% Alpine (most common in Baden and Bavaria), 15% Noric, 6% Keltic Nordic (most common in the old Frankish country in the southwest), 5% Anglo-Saxon (most common in the northwest), 5% East Baltic, 5% Dinaric , 4% Hallstatt Nordic = 80% Nordish (60% central and 20% periphery types)

    France = 30% Alpine, 30% Noric (most common in the north), 20% Mediterranean (most common in the south and Corsica), 15% Dinaric, 3% Borreby (in the northeast), 2% Nordic = 35% Nordish (5% central and 30% periphery types)

    Switzerland = 40% Keltic Nordic and 30% Noric (most common in the north, west and center), 15% Dinaric and 15% Alpine (most common in the south and east) = 70% Nordish (40% central and 30% periphery types)

    Austria = 35% Noric, 25% Dinaric, 20% Alpine, 15% Keltic Nordic, 5% Hallstatt Nordic = 55% Nordish (20% central and 35% periphery types)

    Poland = 55% Neo-Danubian , 10% Ladogan, 10% Alpine, 10% Dinaric, 5% Hallstatt Nordic, 5% Noric, 5% East Baltic = 70% Nordish (5% central and 65% periphery types)

    Finland and the Baltic States = 50% East Baltic , 15% Hallstatt Nordic (most common in the Swedish-settled areas of Finland), 30% Neo-Danubian (most common in southeast Lithuania and northeast Finland), 5% Ladogan = 95% Nordish (15% central and 80% periphery types)

    The Czech Republic and Slovakia = 40% Alpine and 15% Noric (most common in Bohemia), 25% Dinaric (most common in Moravia), 20% Neo-Danubian (most common in Slovakia) = 35% Periphery Nordish

    Hungary = 35% Neo-Danubian (most common in the northeast), 25% Turanid (of Magyar derivation) , 20% Dinaric (most common in the southwest), 15% Alpine (most common in the south), 2% Nordic, 2% Noric, 1% East Mediterranean = 39% Nordish (2% central and 37% periphery types)

    Russia, Belorussia and Ukraine = 40% Neo-Danubian (most common in Belorussia and western Ukraine), 35% Ladogan , 8% Nordic, 7% East Mediterranean (most common near the Black Sea coast), 5% Dinaric (most common in eastern Ukraine), 5% Noric = 53% Nordish (8% central and 45% periphery types)

    Spain and Portugal = 85% West Mediterranean , 9% South Mediterranean, 5% Dinaric, 1% Nordic (most common in the remnants of the Visigoth aristocracy) = 1% Central Nordish

    Italy = 50% Dinaricized Mediterranean (most common in the south and Sicily), 20% Dinaric (most common in the north), 15% Alpine (most common in the northwest), 10% West Mediterranean (most common in Sardinia), 4% Noric (most common in the north, 1% Nordic (most common in the remnants of the Ostrogoth and Lombard aristocracy) = 5% Nordish (1% central and 4% periphery types). Italy, much like the other southern European countries of the Mediterranean region -- Spain, Portugal and Greece -- experienced several waves of Nordish invasions during ancient and early Medieval times, from the Danubians (circa 2,000-1,500 B.C.), who brought the Indo-European language that developed into Latin, and the Kelts (beginning circa 500 B.C.), to the Germanic Ostrogoths and Lombards (A.D. 400-700). These Nordish elements have been gradually assimilated into the majority Mediterranean population, but some of their genetic traits, existing in solution, occasionally recombine to appear in individuals whose other traits are mostly non-Nordish.

    Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia and Macedonia = 75% Dinaric, 10% West Mediterranean (most common on the coast), 10% Noric and 5% Neo-Danubian (most common in the north) = 15% periphery Nordish types

    Romania = 35% Dinaric (most common in the west), 25% East Mediterranean (most common on the coast), 20% Neo-Danubian (most common in the northeast), 10% Alpine, 7% Noric and 3% Nordic (most common in the west) = 30% Nordish (3% central and 27% periphery types)

    Albania = 75% Dinaric, 10% West Mediterranean, 10% Alpine, 5% Noric = 5% periphery Nordish

    Bulgaria = 60% East Mediterranean, 15% Alpine, 15% Dinaric, 5% Turanid, 5% Nordish

    Greece = 40% East Mediterranean, 25% Dinaricized Mediterranean, 20% Alpine (most common in Epirus), 10% Dinaric, 5% Nordish (partly assimilated remnant, or genetic recombinations from solution, of various past Nordish invaders, mostly of Danubian type, going back to the ancient Achaeans and Dorians; most common in the north)

    ________________________________________ ____________________

    Sweden= The Halstatt figure should be more around 50%. Genetics (8% male lineage) indicates a greater Uralic contribution (East Baltics).

    England, Ireland, Scotland, and especially Wales= 100% Nordish?
    I'm sure that not ALL Atlanto-Mediterraneans were absorbed....

    Scotland & England= Brunn element seems too low, especially for Scotland, which seems to be signficantly UP.

    Ireland= One would think that the Mediterranean element is more similar to England and Scotland.

    Netherlands= I observed quite a few distinct Nordics on my trip there last spring, and the majority were NOT of the Keltic variant...

    Belgium= 5% Alpine seems too low considering that it is the principal element in the Wallonians, who are roughly one third of the population.

    France= Alpine figure should be a tad higher. Norics are by definition blond, so even if one assumes that only half of all French Norics are blond, the numbers due not correlate with the pigmentation of the nation as a whole.

    Poland= 55 Neo-Danubian seems to high, unless Battle-Axe and Corded types are included in the figure, which may well be the case.

    Finland and the Baltic States= 50 % Baltic perhaps, but surely some are of other Baltic sub-races.

    Hungary= 25% of indigenous Hungarians are of mixed-race?

    Russia, Belorussia, and Ukraine= Again, is the Corded element included with the Neo-Danubian figure? Over 1/3 Ladogan appears too high...

    Spain and Portugal= No Atlanto-Mediterraneans?

    The Balkans= Genetics indicates the Danubian element is stronger. Dinarics are the dominant type, yet 3/4 doesn't seem plausible.




    Don't be afraid to point out any mistakes or errors I have made. I am not overly knowledgable in physical anthropology, so I would be glad to know where I have made mistakes and why.

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    Tired

    The Ladogan estimate in Russia is waaaay to high !

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    Quote Originally Posted by xakep
    The Ladogan estimate in Russia is waaaay to high !

    For Russia, perhaps it's fairly accurate. For ethnic Russians; not a chance. At most, 10% of ethnic Russians belong to "Ladogan" types (as a result of genetic recombination in various periphery areas).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigal Son
    For Russia, perhaps it's fairly accurate. For ethnic Russians; not a chance. At most, 10% of ethnic Russians belong to "Ladogan" types (as a result of genetic recombination in various periphery areas).
    Would you say Boris Yeltsin is an unfortunate member that 10% of your Ladogan estimate? Or is he, in your view, completely free of Ladogan influence?

    - Loki

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Would you say Boris Yeltsin is an unfortunate member that 10% of your Ladogan estimate? Or is he, in your view, completely free of Ladogan influence?

    - Loki

    Boris Yeltsin is a drunk, who's had his nose broken several time during his childhood. This makes classifying him veryy hard, and any classifications thus derived unverifiable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Would you say Boris Yeltsin is an unfortunate member that 10% of your Ladogan estimate? Or is he, in your view, completely free of Ladogan influence?

    - Loki
    I haven't seen many pictures of him from his youth, but I think he expresses some Ladogan characteristics. Of course this resurrects the whole 'Is Ladogan a native relic population of undifferentiated Mongoloid-Caucasoid common ancestors, or the result of relatively recent Mongoloid admixture?' debate which I don't have enough evidence to form an opinion on, though the distribution of TatC inclines me somewhat towards the former answer...

    BTW I agree that the Netherlands are more than 10% Hallstatt, that the Atlantid component is underestimated in the British Isles, and that the Dinaric and East Baltic components in Germany are underestimated slightly. I don't see anything wrong at first glance with the figures for France and Finland/the Baltic though. I also think Sweden is closer to 10% Baltid. Does he really believe there are no Baltids in Russia and Byelarus, and that they are 35% Ladogan? Everything I've seen indicates that Baltic is the single most common type in Byelarus. There is also a Brünn element in Spain that he is ignoring, and yes, there is more overlap between Spain and the British Isles than he acknowledges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigal Son
    Boris Yeltsin is a drunk, who's had his nose broken several time during his childhood. This makes classifying him veryy hard, and any classifications thus derived unverifiable.
    His nose looks fine to me. It is his eyes that look suspicious. I don't really think a broken nose would let your eyes go all squinty.

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    Of course, by "Ladogan" I don't necessarily mean someone who looks like Alexander Lebed (not a Russian, in case anyone still thinks so).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    His nose looks fine to me. It is his eyes that look suspicious. I don't really think a broken nose would let your eyes go all squinty.
    His eyes are 'squinty' because he is an alcoholic. As you can see in the picture below, they were not squinty at all in his youth:


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    In any case, I think that a 35% Ladogan component would imply more than 0.14% (12 out of 8500) weakly developed epicanthi (75% of which is in Northeastern periphery areas, anyway)....

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